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like to welcome you to the second

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experiment that we've had I think in the

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last two years of having a panel

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discussion to permit the audience to

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clarify their and answered questions in

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their minds of the people who they heard

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from during the day and so today we have

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basically we don't need to introduce

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everybody because you know who they are

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we have the panel who will we'll deal

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with the evening in the following way

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and they said this panel is for you and

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at the beginning I'm going to ask the

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panelists to take two minutes each and

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mention only the things that they both

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feel strongly feel about or the most

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logical conclusion would use a little

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timer that we've become comfortable with

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for two minutes so they'll make it easy

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for you except for James carrion who has

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not been able to share his thoughts with

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us today who will have five minutes or

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maybe seven depending and and then as

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far as the questioners and the audience

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are concerned we will have a traveling

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mic for you to use and I think that's it

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we'll give you the mic and use it based

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on your hand raising if possible these

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are direct the question to one speaker

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or make it to the panel in general

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that's your choice if you were asking

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you to ask a question not give a speech

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although we recognize that sometimes

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it's necessary to have a little preamble

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in order to make the question clear and

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I'd like to encourage you to avoid

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multiple questions because it taxes our

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minds to try to remember what order

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they're in and the other hand we don't

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want you to leave this room feeling

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unsatisfied that you had the question

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you were burning to ask and you never

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got any satisfactory answers so the less

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instructions for the audience and for

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the panelists I would encourage you even

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though we have a traveling mic if you

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feel as comfortable restate the question

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repeat it or maximize the clarity and

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this gives you a chance to think about

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your answer anyway and typically I've

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read a survey that said the most

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effective answers for TV personalities

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are gone in 45 seconds

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so I think we should avoid you know two

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or three-minute answers and avoid the

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second answer so that's those are my

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suggestions and other than that I'm just

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going to be one of the one of the

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panelists doing their thing and actually

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I'd like to suggest that we started at

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the other end with with Claude that okay

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Claude

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just two minutes to summarize whatever

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you'd like to say can you hear me okay

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yeah I don't have anything that is

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burning on my mind I'm just it's a very

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exciting time to be alive lot of things

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happening on the planet today and I

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think a lot of the ferment that we're

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seeing in science reflects that there's

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an opportunity here for enormous growth

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and enormous learning and enormous

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spiritual growth I think that's as part

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of part of the whole process

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along with the scientific discoveries so

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I guess I'd start with the highlights of

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the talk first of all I think the

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physical reality of UFOs is proven

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beyond all reasonable doubt every every

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sensor we have picks them up what that

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what they are hard to say I think the

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biggest problem in the field today stems

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from the Condon report which made it not

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okay to study if you are in a profession

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and choose to a particularly scientific

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community and choose to study UFOs

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you're at risk and that is because of

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the perception in the community there's

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also been studies done by the way of

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looking at what scientists think about

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various fields and phenomenology UFOs in

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particular what the public feels about

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it and they're living in two different

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worlds

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I'll also address one issue that's kind

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of clear and I'm sure mr. Haddie is

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going to we have agreed to disagree but

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Corso came up as a key issue I had we

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knew of course so long before they after

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Roswell I was with him one week spent a

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day with him one week before he died at

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that time he showed me the manuscript

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that he was writing on that says you

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know we had to correct the all of the

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mistakes that came out of day after

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Roswell the other thing that I did do is

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spend considerable amount of time

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checking not only his career but all of

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the technologies involved and I can tell

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you that they simply do not track what

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you find is a starting point for all of

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the technologies were mentioned it's a

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continuous growth var no step functions

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and I've talked to many of the key

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people involved in the R&D it's simply

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not they're certainly not lasers night

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vision any of those sorts of things

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[Music]

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James what did we do you last it that's

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okay unless you do it right now we could

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do it James right now James is the

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international director of mutual new

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health MUFON or mutual UFO network and

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he's going to speak to us for the first

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time mmm I was told that I had five

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minutes to discuss the UFO phenomena

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with a a group of open-minded scientists

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and the first thing that came to mind

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mainstream science seems to be

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confounded by this subject and it may

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come as a surprise to you but those of

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us who study it seriously are just as

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perplexed but at least we're willing to

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acknowledge this pink elephant that's in

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the room we have the 60 year old mystery

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probably much older and the question

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that comes to mind at least for me is

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there a solution to this mystery and why

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haven't we found it yet where's the

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nature of the phenomena so intricate so

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complex that it possibly involves the

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very nature of consciousness itself

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that's the problem with ufology we

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always seem to have more questions than

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we do answers but consider this we're

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trying to define a phenomena that is

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difficult for just to define just based

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on the spectrum of activity which is so

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broad who can say where the phenomena

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begins and where it ends when we have

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credible witnesses some who report

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seeing nuts-and-bolts craft in the sky

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and then followed by that the initiation

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of poltergeist activity in their home or

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those folks that receive telepathic

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messages from

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entities of unknown origin are those

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folks that see a classic flying-saucer

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and a Bigfoot creature at the same time

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the overlapping boundaries of psychic

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phenomena cryptozoology spirituality

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makes it difficult for us to

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compartmentalize the data for study and

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it often feels like an exercise and

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ambiguity MUFON is gonna be celebrating

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its 40th anniversary next year the

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organization was founded in 1969

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soon after the qanun Committee released

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their results and soon after the Air

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Force terminated Project Blue Book we

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have a t-shirt for sale on our website

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at WWF and calm and the t-shirt on the

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front has the MUFON logo and on the back

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the words doing the Air Forces jobs

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since 1969 so what is MUFON doing today

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well we're actively investigating UFO

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reports that's what we've pretty much

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done for the last 40 years but we've

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also formed two research teams one is

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our history team and one is our

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abduction team our history team is

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looking at the early history of the

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phenomena and specifically looking in

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government archives for factual

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information our abduction team is taking

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a closer look at the abduction

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experience or phenomenon and they're

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using two databases that MUFON has

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organized throughout the years one is

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our abduction monitoring project and the

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other one is our abduction transcription

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project our annual symposium is coming

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up in July in San Jose and the theme of

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the symposium is UFOs a worldwide

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phenomenon we have a great lineup of

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speakers from a number of different

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countries from Chile from Peru from the

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UK from Canada from Mexico from Belgium

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we hope you can join us there when it

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comes to ufology I'm sort of the new kid

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on the block as compared to such

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luminaries as Jerome Clark and dr. Bob

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wood and John Schuessler

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who have lived UFO history I'm not a

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scientist but I do have a passion for

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the truth and I'm sure that you're here

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today because you share that same

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passion your studies and your research

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into diverse phenomena is relevant and

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extremely important for us to understand

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the UFO phenomena and I applaud your

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efforts I'm honored to be your guest

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thank you what an exciting time to be

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alive and to realize what we've always

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suspected and that is that we're not

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alone in the cosmos and that there are

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other people there probably some real

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people and some different forms that we

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don't understand and wish we did

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understand and there are various kinds

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of them and they come from various parts

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of the of the cosmos and they are more

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advanced than we are in most cases that

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we know of anyway and they are not only

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advanced technologically but in many

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cases they're more spiritual than we are

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and some of them think that we have lost

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our connection with the source and like

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my new friend that I've just met I - I'm

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seeking the truth and I think it's it's

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going to be very difficult to get the

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truth in absolute terms because we're

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talking about one of the most

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interesting but at the same time most

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complex questions ever to come into our

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human sphere and I guess I wish I had

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more years to work at it but I'm going

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to take full advantage of the ones I've

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got left

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Thanks

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I got interested in UFOs and I was 11

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years old which was in 1957 so as as

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James just said I have lived UFO history

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as bob has and we've been around for a

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long time and seeing all kinds of things

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comes and come and go and many

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disappointments more disappointments

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than breakthroughs and I am certain

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unfortunately and I'm not a pessimist by

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nature that the UFO phenomenon will

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continue to be marginalized science will

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continue to neglect it it is a question

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that science will have to take up one

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day because UFOs won't go away the SETI

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project will continue to fail and old

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conservative stubborn scientists will

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die and one day when the scientists who

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claim on the basis of no evidence that

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the galaxy is densely populated our

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finally called one too many times on the

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absence of evidence for this

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extraordinary proposition some absurd

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young astronomer is going to say well

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you know we could look at those UFO

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reports that's what's going to happen in

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the meantime I think that one thing that

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has progress obviously besides

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the fact that we don't have access to

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scientific expertise and funding and all

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those things is that we're making a

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series of category errors and I think

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that with the UFO phenomenon as with

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other kinds of extraordinary claims as I

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said in my lecture this morning there's

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00:13:35,889 --> 00:13:33,170
more than one thing going on there's

276
00:13:38,259 --> 00:13:35,899
there's an anomalous event phenomenon

277
00:13:39,939 --> 00:13:38,269
and there's an experienced anomaly

278
00:13:42,430 --> 00:13:39,949
phenomenon and they're only

279
00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:42,440
superficially related in attempts to

280
00:13:48,340 --> 00:13:45,350
sweep them under one explanatory scheme

281
00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:48,350
will get us nowhere which is in many

282
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:50,270
ways where we are now we just have to

283
00:13:53,870 --> 00:13:52,250
rethink what we're dealing with

284
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:53,880
then the

285
00:13:57,980 --> 00:13:55,770
event phenomenon is something that is

286
00:14:00,770 --> 00:13:57,990
eminently scientific and scientifically

287
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:00,780
investigated Bowl if science had its

288
00:14:05,330 --> 00:14:03,120
resources directed toward that problem

289
00:14:07,490 --> 00:14:05,340
it probably would have salted by now the

290
00:14:09,950 --> 00:14:07,500
experienced anomaly phenomenon is much

291
00:14:13,010 --> 00:14:09,960
more intractable in far beyond current

292
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:13,020
knowledge and now I turn it over to my

293
00:14:20,330 --> 00:14:17,730
friend Bob start the timer even though I

294
00:14:21,770 --> 00:14:20,340
began to be interested in the mid 60s

295
00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:21,780
and my first book I ever read was by

296
00:14:27,530 --> 00:14:25,830
dawn Menzel and as I read it wow this

297
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:27,540
guy seems like he's forgetting some

298
00:14:34,910 --> 00:14:31,680
stuff anyway right now my focus is on

299
00:14:36,770 --> 00:14:34,920
question documents and my conclusions I

300
00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:36,780
mentioned this morning is that some of

301
00:14:40,340 --> 00:14:38,910
these documents are authentic and if

302
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:40,350
they're authentic what that means if

303
00:14:45,950 --> 00:14:42,810
there are have been and maybe still be

304
00:14:48,260 --> 00:14:45,960
some covert programs of the United

305
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:48,270
States and maybe other countries too and

306
00:14:54,020 --> 00:14:50,880
the reason that's the case is because

307
00:14:56,060 --> 00:14:54,030
the dominant reason for keeping it

308
00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:56,070
secret from the very beginning was to

309
00:15:01,360 --> 00:14:57,690
capture the technology if the first

310
00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:01,370
crash happened in 1941 or so we were

311
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:03,630
basically about to start the world war

312
00:15:08,330 --> 00:15:06,690
so critical to protect the technology

313
00:15:11,930 --> 00:15:08,340
and figure out how they work and how to

314
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:11,940
use them as weapons I don't know whether

315
00:15:18,380 --> 00:15:13,920
we've learned a lot of secrets or

316
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:18,390
relatively few secrets but I I do know

317
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:21,570
that my judgment is that there have been

318
00:15:26,290 --> 00:15:24,450
and our classified programs and that

319
00:15:28,490 --> 00:15:26,300
some of my documents are authentic

320
00:15:32,090 --> 00:15:28,500
forgot to set the timer so I'll assume

321
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:32,100
that was two minutes and I think now

322
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:33,600
we're ready for some questions from the

323
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:40,770
audience and by me actually James said I

324
00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:43,050
think is a huge misperception that all

325
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:45,540
the audience applying and that was a

326
00:15:52,010 --> 00:15:48,890
t-shirt this is doing the Air Forces job

327
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:52,020
you know one of my bullets on the slide

328
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:54,540
on the Condon report is Contin was right

329
00:15:57,580 --> 00:15:56,730
the question that Condon was not are

330
00:16:01,360 --> 00:15:57,590
there

331
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:01,370
UFOs it was is this a threat this is the

332
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:04,490
Department of National Defense not the

333
00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:06,530
Department of let's check things in

334
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:09,710
aviation we have an aviation department

335
00:16:15,070 --> 00:16:11,690
and as we mentioned there have been

336
00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:15,080
interactions certainly with aircraft

337
00:16:19,810 --> 00:16:17,420
that are of nature but the air the air

338
00:16:22,660 --> 00:16:19,820
force certainly would not assume that

339
00:16:25,180 --> 00:16:22,670
this is necessarily inherent inherently

340
00:16:27,220 --> 00:16:25,190
their mission they would you know if

341
00:16:29,310 --> 00:16:27,230
attack probably see the mission to

342
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:29,320
defend us they haven't seen a threat

343
00:16:34,930 --> 00:16:32,450
thank you okay we need to change our

344
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:34,940
t-shirt to say overtly doing the air

345
00:16:40,660 --> 00:16:37,730
force's job since 1916 I'm gonna take

346
00:16:41,950 --> 00:16:40,670
the closest raise hands right here seems

347
00:16:43,450 --> 00:16:41,960
to me that one of the things that could

348
00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:43,460
be most easily checked because it's a

349
00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:45,080
matter of a history and people involved

350
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:47,030
are still alive and such is this one of

351
00:16:51,070 --> 00:16:49,490
the origin of Technology you know I hear

352
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:51,080
one claim that the origin of technology

353
00:16:54,940 --> 00:16:53,330
has followed a smooth progress with the

354
00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:54,950
originators of it you know still telling

355
00:16:58,090 --> 00:16:56,510
their stories and it's quite clear that

356
00:17:00,190 --> 00:16:58,100
where things come from the pedigree of

357
00:17:03,370 --> 00:17:00,200
the laser fiber optics and so on they're

358
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:03,380
also they the acceptance of the Corso

359
00:17:06,250 --> 00:17:04,490
story that all this is due to back

360
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:06,260
engineering and so on it seems to me

361
00:17:09,069 --> 00:17:08,089
that this is eminently checkable fact we

362
00:17:10,510 --> 00:17:09,079
have someone right here in the very

363
00:17:11,949 --> 00:17:10,520
first row Russell Targ who we talked

364
00:17:14,350 --> 00:17:11,959
about the origin of laser I'm sure and

365
00:17:15,939 --> 00:17:14,360
it looks to me as if this is a problem

366
00:17:17,770 --> 00:17:15,949
that could be addressed and pretty

367
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:17,780
unambiguously answered as to whether or

368
00:17:21,340 --> 00:17:19,730
not it's the one tract or the other that

369
00:17:28,449 --> 00:17:21,350
is the origin of the technology that's

370
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:28,459
the basis of the world today if that's

371
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:32,810
where we've been done oh ok went arrest

372
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:36,110
may want to take on lasers let me take

373
00:17:40,090 --> 00:17:37,850
on one of the ones specifically that's

374
00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:40,100
in there talk about alien eyeballs and

375
00:17:46,660 --> 00:17:43,960
night vision if you look at the

376
00:17:49,930 --> 00:17:46,670
development of night-vision optics

377
00:17:51,970 --> 00:17:49,940
straight line since we want to name

378
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:51,980
names lou cameron who was a director of

379
00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:54,130
night vision lab personal friend

380
00:18:01,120 --> 00:17:57,110
surprisingly would be interested in the

381
00:18:03,250 --> 00:18:01,130
topic and very open but we know exactly

382
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:03,260
how photo photomultipliers came along

383
00:18:07,550 --> 00:18:05,120
how the night vision process came along

384
00:18:10,460 --> 00:18:07,560
how the transitions went

385
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:10,470
initially infrared to follow multipliers

386
00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:14,130
to now thermal imagery there are no step

387
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:15,900
functions and the rest of them

388
00:18:21,620 --> 00:18:19,710
integrated circuitry all that I was

389
00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:21,630
gonna have a word to say about lasers

390
00:18:27,230 --> 00:18:24,270
they came out of Columbia University

391
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:27,240
Charles towns that are cello had an idea

392
00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:29,310
to make a maser which is a microwave

393
00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:31,560
amplifier by stimulated emission of

394
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:34,260
radiation and the maze there was a

395
00:18:39,260 --> 00:18:37,650
microwave device and at Columbia they

396
00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:39,270
were looking for ways to make at higher

397
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:41,160
higher frequency moved from long

398
00:18:47,390 --> 00:18:44,160
wavelength to millimeter waves and then

399
00:18:50,030 --> 00:18:47,400
in the middle 50s Gordon Gould who was a

400
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:50,040
student of Charles Townes said why don't

401
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:52,890
we try and make an optical maser move

402
00:18:58,790 --> 00:18:56,610
from millimeter microwaves to ten micron

403
00:19:01,880 --> 00:18:58,800
optical waves and shorter optical waves

404
00:19:03,950 --> 00:19:01,890
and it all began with makers who

405
00:19:06,650 --> 00:19:03,960
observed laser action at the Bureau of

406
00:19:10,090 --> 00:19:06,660
Standards in 1930 so you have a very

407
00:19:13,610 --> 00:19:10,100
clear path going from spectroscopy

408
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:13,620
spectroscopic measurement in the 30s to

409
00:19:24,170 --> 00:19:20,160
lasers in May 16th 1960 when Ted Mayman

410
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:24,180
built local first optical maser which we

411
00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:26,310
call a laser but I had to either

412
00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:28,230
question my own noun that I wanted to

413
00:19:36,010 --> 00:19:31,470
ask see I have no credentials to ask

414
00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:36,020
anything about UFOs I was I'm a

415
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:37,860
paranormalist though so I've been

416
00:19:42,770 --> 00:19:40,050
talking about remote viewing for many

417
00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:42,780
years and I get a lot of airtime

418
00:19:46,490 --> 00:19:44,760
people are always asked me about remote

419
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:46,500
viewing on the radio television and

420
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:49,200
along the way they asked me about UFOs

421
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:51,930
and I'm tired of saying I'm ignorant I

422
00:19:59,170 --> 00:19:54,570
don't know anything and out of this

423
00:20:02,660 --> 00:19:59,180
conference I found a general consensus

424
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,670
believe it or not and the experts seem

425
00:20:07,610 --> 00:20:05,280
to all agree that something like UFOs

426
00:20:10,250 --> 00:20:07,620
exist and the government is probably

427
00:20:13,730 --> 00:20:10,260
lying about it but I'm looking at

428
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:13,740
expertise more than a hundred years in

429
00:20:19,410 --> 00:20:17,250
duration from this panel and when people

430
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:19,420
ask me how does the SP work I

431
00:20:23,490 --> 00:20:21,730
hate that question but I have something

432
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:23,500
to say I can write an equation on a

433
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:26,110
blackboard I can draw a diagram and say

434
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:28,450
I don't know that this is the answer but

435
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:30,880
the answer looks something like this I

436
00:20:37,770 --> 00:20:34,870
will be interested if any are some of

437
00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:37,780
the distinguished panel here could give

438
00:20:48,420 --> 00:20:41,590
me their best guess as to where UFOs

439
00:20:52,410 --> 00:20:48,430
come from and what they are Jamie

440
00:20:54,150 --> 00:20:52,420
James you want to go for it of course

441
00:20:57,570 --> 00:20:54,160
they come from the platies we all know

442
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:57,580
that no I don't have a good answer for

443
00:21:05,430 --> 00:20:57,970
that

444
00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:05,440
I have a guess no actually I don't even

445
00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:07,300
have a guess but I but I do want to

446
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:08,590
address what you talked about the

447
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:13,120
government interest in the subject a lot

448
00:21:16,530 --> 00:21:14,530
of folks thinks this is this is

449
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,540
conspiracy theory this is not conspiracy

450
00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:19,120
theory folks this is real there's an

451
00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:21,820
active and real interests on the part of

452
00:21:26,730 --> 00:21:24,670
certain elements within our power

453
00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:26,740
structure in this field the question is

454
00:21:34,530 --> 00:21:32,200
why are we talking about the protection

455
00:21:35,940 --> 00:21:34,540
of some secret that is an

456
00:21:38,490 --> 00:21:35,950
extraterrestrial nature of an

457
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:38,500
interdimensional nature I don't know all

458
00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:41,770
I know is that in my job as the director

459
00:21:48,420 --> 00:21:46,030
of MUFON I seen enough overt interest to

460
00:21:49,650 --> 00:21:48,430
know that there is some secret here and

461
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:49,660
I don't know what that secret is but I

462
00:21:58,890 --> 00:21:53,170
sure would like to find out some other

463
00:22:02,840 --> 00:21:58,900
questions from other people well ok

464
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:02,850
because I obviously clearly disagree I

465
00:22:06,510 --> 00:22:05,410
think the difference is what I pointed

466
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:06,520
to today the difference between

467
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:09,310
individuals who are interested and I

468
00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:11,890
have talked to people at all levels all

469
00:22:17,670 --> 00:22:15,670
ranks and it runs the full gamut as you

470
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:17,680
might expect but 7 percent of the adult

471
00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:20,710
population of seeing UFOs that holds

472
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:22,990
true within the military as well there

473
00:22:26,850 --> 00:22:25,120
are many people who are quite interested

474
00:22:29,130 --> 00:22:26,860
that does not translate the

475
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:29,140
institutional interest

476
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:31,440
up to their ass and alligators right now

477
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:33,970
and this is not something that's going

478
00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:37,810
to you know rise to you know in in the

479
00:22:43,650 --> 00:22:40,270
near future it's not gonna rise any

480
00:22:44,940 --> 00:22:43,660
level of significance well if I were to

481
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:44,950
contribute to your answer to where do

482
00:22:49,020 --> 00:22:45,490
they come from

483
00:22:50,670 --> 00:22:49,030
and what I that in my opinion that's

484
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:50,680
straightforward they come from multiple

485
00:22:55,980 --> 00:22:53,850
different societies that are separated

486
00:22:57,810 --> 00:22:55,990
hundreds of light years in many cases

487
00:22:59,340 --> 00:22:57,820
away have figured out a way to travel

488
00:23:01,200 --> 00:22:59,350
faster than the speed of light or to get

489
00:23:02,790 --> 00:23:01,210
here through some wormhole or something

490
00:23:05,370 --> 00:23:02,800
like that and we just don't have the

491
00:23:07,170 --> 00:23:05,380
technology that's where the secret in my

492
00:23:09,630 --> 00:23:07,180
mind that is that's important to

493
00:23:13,890 --> 00:23:09,640
discover is is how do they work because

494
00:23:15,780 --> 00:23:13,900
we can I think improve our societal life

495
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:15,790
on this planet by using those

496
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:18,310
technologies in a way that's appropriate

497
00:23:23,130 --> 00:23:21,610
well kind of follow-up though I don't

498
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:23,140
think where they come from the right

499
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:25,600
question whatever we're looking at is

500
00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:28,450
terribly complex and I strongly suspect

501
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:30,220
that there's a consciousness component

502
00:23:36,510 --> 00:23:33,250
in legree that if you look at the

503
00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:36,520
reports over time what you find are that

504
00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:39,820
the UFOs are not super far in the

505
00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:42,550
distance but a little bit beyond you

506
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:44,500
know where we are today if you look at

507
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:46,210
the ones I think we heard Jerry talk

508
00:23:50,610 --> 00:23:48,640
about some this morning in the 1800's

509
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,620
we're talking about airships we weren't

510
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:52,960
talking about things if around Jacques

511
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:55,090
Valais has a classic one from the early

512
00:24:00,300 --> 00:23:57,250
1900's where a guy drives around the

513
00:24:03,180 --> 00:24:00,310
corner sees a shiny UFO there and every

514
00:24:05,340 --> 00:24:03,190
rivet is standing out well we now know

515
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:05,350
that rivets you know are not a

516
00:24:09,870 --> 00:24:07,930
technology we use in you know far

517
00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:09,880
distant future so within 50 years that

518
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:12,940
was them but I because of what you did

519
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:16,480
mention about the interrelationship of a

520
00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:19,840
number of phenomena I strongly suspect a

521
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:21,940
consciousness component and I can't tell

522
00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:23,290
you what that is or where that comes

523
00:24:27,030 --> 00:24:23,590
from

524
00:24:31,370 --> 00:24:27,040
right okay let's have some other

525
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:33,750
many discussions about the UFO

526
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:35,770
phenomenon our premise on the assumption

527
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:39,190
that the occupants of these craft are

528
00:24:45,330 --> 00:24:43,090
somehow more advanced and we are apart

529
00:24:48,690 --> 00:24:45,340
from technology and I'm curious to know

530
00:24:51,090 --> 00:24:48,700
what's your read on the evidence for

531
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:51,100
making assumptions about how advanced

532
00:24:59,360 --> 00:24:52,690
they are or how more how much more

533
00:25:10,050 --> 00:25:06,510
you might want to try that one yeah I

534
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:10,060
don't I don't really see I know this

535
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:13,090
well some will vehement ly disagree and

536
00:25:17,010 --> 00:25:15,010
and I don't pretend to involve ility

537
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:17,020
here but I have never seen any evidence

538
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:20,110
myself as a historian of the phenomenon

539
00:25:25,890 --> 00:25:23,170
that UFO intelligences are a spiritually

540
00:25:28,890 --> 00:25:25,900
superior to us I think there are certain

541
00:25:31,620 --> 00:25:28,900
kinds of presumptions you can reasonably

542
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:31,630
make for example it let us assume

543
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:34,170
they're from some you know extrasolar

544
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:36,400
civilizations just the fact that they

545
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,130
got here that they had a technology that

546
00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:41,200
got them here means that they have at

547
00:25:45,870 --> 00:25:43,000
least some things in common with us they

548
00:25:48,270 --> 00:25:45,880
have curiosity they have science they

549
00:25:50,790 --> 00:25:48,280
have a desire to learn things to go

550
00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:50,800
places so they do have things in common

551
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:53,020
with this an alien intelligence that got

552
00:25:58,170 --> 00:25:56,170
here in machines just by the nature of

553
00:26:00,270 --> 00:25:58,180
the fact that it flew here in machines

554
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:00,280
would mean that we did have some things

555
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:03,730
in common with it but the the spiritual

556
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:06,010
aspect I see is coming out of kind of

557
00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:09,010
quasi religious experiences that people

558
00:26:15,030 --> 00:26:11,980
have that are vivid and compelling to

559
00:26:17,370 --> 00:26:15,040
them but not demonstrably related to the

560
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:17,380
UFO phenomenon whatever the the

561
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,320
appearance of the the communicating

562
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:22,960
entities might suggest I think that

563
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:25,150
these are in the category what I called

564
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:28,240
in my lecture this morning experienced

565
00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:30,850
anomalies the UFO phenomenon the core

566
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:32,830
UFO phenomenon the daylight disc

567
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:34,930
phenomenon the phenomenon that leaves

568
00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:38,290
ground races is the event phenomenon

569
00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:40,750
that's the anomalous event which is

570
00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:41,670
scientifically

571
00:26:45,710 --> 00:26:43,710
Esther Gable and all we really know

572
00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:45,720
about them is that apparently they're

573
00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:47,790
from an extra there from extrasolar

574
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:49,440
civilizations that's a reasonable

575
00:26:53,570 --> 00:26:51,570
inference they have a technology and

576
00:26:55,820 --> 00:26:53,580
they're curious enough to be here we

577
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:55,830
don't know what beyond much beyond that

578
00:26:59,930 --> 00:26:57,570
but I don't really see myself any

579
00:27:02,380 --> 00:26:59,940
evidence that we have any cause to

580
00:27:05,090 --> 00:27:02,390
worship them or to turn to them for

581
00:27:08,150 --> 00:27:05,100
superior religious insights anyone else

582
00:27:11,330 --> 00:27:08,160
on the panel want to add to that okay

583
00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:11,340
we've got a question here yes this is

584
00:27:16,370 --> 00:27:13,620
addressed up to Paul and the others as

585
00:27:19,490 --> 00:27:16,380
well but Paul you mentioned earlier

586
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:19,500
today that in your presentation that

587
00:27:24,980 --> 00:27:22,050
there that Wernher von Braun had

588
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:24,990
mentioned or had hinted that the Germans

589
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:27,810
may have gotten some technology from and

590
00:27:35,390 --> 00:27:31,520
from some of advanced source will say

591
00:27:38,510 --> 00:27:35,400
and that that was maybe explained why

592
00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:38,520
they were so much far ahead of us prior

593
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:40,800
to world war ii in their development of

594
00:27:45,020 --> 00:27:43,260
jets rockets and that kind of thing and

595
00:27:47,210 --> 00:27:45,030
i'm wondering if you could elaborate on

596
00:27:51,140 --> 00:27:47,220
that and also for the rest of the power

597
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:51,150
to it to address the claim by some that

598
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:53,490
the Germans themselves had to develop

599
00:28:01,340 --> 00:27:56,850
some type of a flying disc or a disc

600
00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:01,350
shaped flying device yes I have no

601
00:28:07,910 --> 00:28:03,150
knowledge on what they have acted had

602
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:07,920
actually achieved hmm I have read in two

603
00:28:15,260 --> 00:28:11,760
different places recently about von

604
00:28:18,590 --> 00:28:15,270
Braun's hints and his reluctance to talk

605
00:28:20,150 --> 00:28:18,600
about it very much for reasons of having

606
00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:20,160
taken some kind of an oath very much

607
00:28:24,290 --> 00:28:22,200
like the reason many of our military

608
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:24,300
people are not I just thought about

609
00:28:34,660 --> 00:28:31,110
these things today and so I suspect

610
00:28:37,670 --> 00:28:34,670
there there's some validity in it from

611
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:37,680
from the sources that I read I wish I

612
00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:39,690
could remember specifically which ones

613
00:28:44,780 --> 00:28:42,080
they were and I would tell you

614
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:44,790
Paulo Aris is here tonight and I think

615
00:28:56,539 --> 00:28:52,289
she knows a lady Carol Rosalyn

616
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:56,549
who worked with von Braun and was

617
00:29:00,979 --> 00:28:58,320
talking about the military-industrial

618
00:29:04,220 --> 00:29:00,989
complex back in the time when General

619
00:29:07,489 --> 00:29:04,230
Eisenhower was worried about it and he

620
00:29:10,239 --> 00:29:07,499
apparently said about the industrial

621
00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:10,249
military complex that first it will be

622
00:29:16,129 --> 00:29:14,220
the Communists and then it will be the

623
00:29:18,169 --> 00:29:16,139
terrorists and then it will be the

624
00:29:21,109 --> 00:29:18,179
extraterrestrials and that this would be

625
00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:21,119
the justification for maintaining very

626
00:29:25,639 --> 00:29:22,980
large defense expenditures and a very

627
00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:25,649
large industrial complex related to it

628
00:29:31,340 --> 00:29:29,129
and the Carol's still around so you

629
00:29:32,659 --> 00:29:31,350
could contact her and check it out

630
00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:32,669
whether if you're interested anyone else

631
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,289
care to comment on the German work of

632
00:29:39,470 --> 00:29:36,720
the late thirties you know I'd like to

633
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:39,480
give you a more pragmatic approach and a

634
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,850
caution and I think the pragmatic

635
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:43,679
approach was the German educational

636
00:29:49,820 --> 00:29:46,799
system that emphasized science rewarded

637
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:49,830
scientists and that they made great

638
00:29:55,489 --> 00:29:53,039
advances in that my admonition is

639
00:29:57,019 --> 00:29:55,499
looking at American science and where we

640
00:29:59,570 --> 00:29:57,029
are today and what's happening in our

641
00:30:04,129 --> 00:29:59,580
educational system I think if there's a

642
00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:04,139
real weak point that's it ok another

643
00:30:09,289 --> 00:30:07,350
question over here thank you one of the

644
00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:09,299
astonishing things that I've I think has

645
00:30:15,499 --> 00:30:13,289
happened recently is several governments

646
00:30:17,389 --> 00:30:15,509
are beginning to open up in to release

647
00:30:20,779 --> 00:30:17,399
information one is of course the French

648
00:30:22,999 --> 00:30:20,789
kameda report which puts Paul Hellyer in

649
00:30:25,539 --> 00:30:23,009
pretty good company with some higher-ups

650
00:30:28,159 --> 00:30:25,549
and and the space program there and in

651
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:28,169
France as well as the defense industry

652
00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:30,480
who show even though this report was

653
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:32,100
supposed to be secret it was leaked out

654
00:30:36,859 --> 00:30:34,769
and they seem to have real concern about

655
00:30:38,989 --> 00:30:36,869
what's going on real concern that there

656
00:30:41,149 --> 00:30:38,999
is some danger if only the danger of

657
00:30:43,460 --> 00:30:41,159
colliding with you know other aircraft

658
00:30:47,599 --> 00:30:43,470
since that time the Brits are starting

659
00:30:50,049 --> 00:30:47,609
to release information Mexico Brazil and

660
00:30:52,340 --> 00:30:50,059
I think others any comment about this

661
00:30:56,210 --> 00:30:52,350
this phenomena that seems to be

662
00:30:58,999 --> 00:30:56,220
happening to any particular one let me

663
00:31:01,390 --> 00:30:59,009
start with John Alexandre and and then

664
00:31:03,740 --> 00:31:01,400
anybody else that would like to

665
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:03,750
not sure but I might tell you a war

666
00:31:07,570 --> 00:31:05,610
story I'll come to a war story in a

667
00:31:10,250 --> 00:31:07,580
minute something that happened last week

668
00:31:12,380 --> 00:31:10,260
where so when you look at the reports

669
00:31:15,860 --> 00:31:12,390
the British reports of things that's

670
00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:15,870
coming out nothing startling there I was

671
00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:17,940
in a position to see most of the

672
00:31:22,460 --> 00:31:20,340
classified material and all that at a

673
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:22,470
time when I could see the classified and

674
00:31:26,769 --> 00:31:24,450
the unclassified I would tell you

675
00:31:29,539 --> 00:31:26,779
ninety-eight percent of the information

676
00:31:31,730 --> 00:31:29,549
was already available in the public

677
00:31:34,639 --> 00:31:31,740
domain about the two percent that was

678
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:34,649
left you know how does this sensor

679
00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:36,690
system work that made the collection and

680
00:31:42,980 --> 00:31:40,230
things of that nature my war stories I

681
00:31:45,889 --> 00:31:42,990
was in Paris at a major arms conference

682
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:45,899
last week and cut it down a bit

683
00:31:53,810 --> 00:31:49,440
the Brazilian ambassador's of France

684
00:31:55,340 --> 00:31:53,820
walked up and a vice admiral was there

685
00:31:57,019 --> 00:31:55,350
and he introduces me and I thought we

686
00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:57,029
were talking about weapons because it

687
00:32:01,760 --> 00:31:58,880
was a weapons conference and he says oh

688
00:32:04,820 --> 00:32:01,770
he says here's a guy who knows about

689
00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:04,830
UFOs to which the Ambassador said let me

690
00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:06,510
tell you about the three times I saw

691
00:32:11,539 --> 00:32:09,809
them so that's almost a risky

692
00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:11,549
proposition but he came on just up

693
00:32:16,430 --> 00:32:12,990
blaming me you know here's what it is

694
00:32:20,090 --> 00:32:16,440
there are some societies Chile

695
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:20,100
you mentioned France there's quite a bit

696
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:22,110
of information coming out as you know my

697
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:24,510
take is different from a panel I don't

698
00:32:32,289 --> 00:32:26,010
think we have a lot of information

699
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:32,299
that's going to startle anybody John

700
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:35,250
don't include me in that I've pretty

701
00:32:39,289 --> 00:32:37,710
much share your view I think of what

702
00:32:40,940 --> 00:32:39,299
William Goldman the Hollywood

703
00:32:43,070 --> 00:32:40,950
screenwriter wrote about the film

704
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:43,080
industry he said one thing that he

705
00:32:48,919 --> 00:32:45,090
learned in Hollywood was that nobody

706
00:32:50,990 --> 00:32:48,929
knows anything and I think that that

707
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:51,000
I've been listening to your comments and

708
00:32:57,850 --> 00:32:53,039
I am entirely in accord with your point

709
00:33:00,320 --> 00:32:57,860
of view I want to step out of my

710
00:33:01,639 --> 00:33:00,330
moderator role for a second and pretend

711
00:33:03,649 --> 00:33:01,649
I'm behind there answering a question

712
00:33:06,289 --> 00:33:03,659
and I want to go back and answer

713
00:33:08,570 --> 00:33:06,299
Bernie's question with a specific report

714
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:08,580
and that is last time I was at the

715
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:10,049
National Archives I was looking

716
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:12,000
specifically for documents that might

717
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:13,890
relate to the mission

718
00:33:21,620 --> 00:33:17,130
of Technology after the cape girardeau

719
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:21,630
crash in 1941 and so I came across some

720
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:23,970
confident while some classified reports

721
00:33:30,830 --> 00:33:27,200
from Purdue University where they had a

722
00:33:33,980 --> 00:33:30,840
contract which at that time was was not

723
00:33:36,260 --> 00:33:33,990
public to look at germanium silicon

724
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:36,270
diodes and the distribution list

725
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:38,880
included Ed Condon and it was from

726
00:33:43,970 --> 00:33:41,370
Lincoln Laboratory and their parts they

727
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:43,980
sent to Bell Laboratories this was 1942

728
00:33:48,370 --> 00:33:46,710
they wrote 15 reports on this subject at

729
00:33:53,570 --> 00:33:48,380
increasing levels of sophistication

730
00:33:57,470 --> 00:33:53,580
showing the the dielectric properties of

731
00:34:00,790 --> 00:33:57,480
germanium silicon mixtures of various

732
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:00,800
percentages as well as the potential to

733
00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:03,600
go beyond simple rectification the

734
00:34:10,220 --> 00:34:07,470
contract was for rectifiers so why share

735
00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:10,230
with this with you only because it's the

736
00:34:15,380 --> 00:34:12,390
beginning of the seed in my mind for a

737
00:34:17,870 --> 00:34:15,390
genuine investigation of whether that

738
00:34:21,950 --> 00:34:17,880
was a credible trail that would have led

739
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:21,960
to the transistor so it's just a it's

740
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:24,000
not a proof or anything it's just

741
00:34:27,919 --> 00:34:25,890
something that I might five years from

742
00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:27,929
now be able to come and tell you hey I

743
00:34:33,470 --> 00:34:32,250
prove this ok I think Bob if you just

744
00:34:36,260 --> 00:34:33,480
give me a minute I would like to

745
00:34:39,590 --> 00:34:36,270
announce my colleagues in this sense

746
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:39,600
that I I do not believe that there are

747
00:34:44,570 --> 00:34:42,720
people who don't know anything I think

748
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:44,580
there are some people who know a very

749
00:34:49,700 --> 00:34:47,520
great deal and are being very secretive

750
00:34:52,220 --> 00:34:49,710
about it and keeping it very close to

751
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:52,230
the chest and I think that they are the

752
00:34:57,350 --> 00:34:53,520
people who are repositories of

753
00:34:59,180 --> 00:34:57,360
tremendous tremendous amount of

754
00:35:01,250 --> 00:34:59,190
knowledge who could answer most of the

755
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:01,260
questions we're talking about tonight

756
00:35:07,580 --> 00:35:05,850
with very definitive answers and my hope

757
00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:07,590
and prayer is that it won't be too long

758
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:09,060
before they will share that information

759
00:35:14,570 --> 00:35:11,160
with us or as much as as possible and

760
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:14,580
that we will stop clowning around like

761
00:35:19,230 --> 00:35:17,040
fish on a dock somewhere thank you for

762
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:19,240
that new a questionnaire room

763
00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:21,760
I'd like to ask for some comments on

764
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:24,670
these recent reports from interests in

765
00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:28,000
Texas mainly Stephenville I had some

766
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:30,790
impression that was gained almost almost

767
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:33,040
the tipping point of going to be broader

768
00:35:39,090 --> 00:35:36,610
publicity in the media of picking up on

769
00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:39,100
it and really discussing it but like to

770
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:43,260
hear some comments thank you James

771
00:35:47,010 --> 00:35:44,490
[Music]

772
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:47,020
Stephenville is interesting because once

773
00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:48,610
Stephenville hit the media then

774
00:35:53,220 --> 00:35:50,710
everybody down in that area was seeing

775
00:35:55,410 --> 00:35:53,230
UFOs and that's what you would expect

776
00:35:58,680 --> 00:35:55,420
from a media frenzy and people looking

777
00:36:01,070 --> 00:35:58,690
up at the skies our investigators were

778
00:36:03,359 --> 00:36:01,080
down there and took a number of reports

779
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:03,369
we looked at a number of videos and

780
00:36:08,850 --> 00:36:06,640
photos and really nothing dramatic but

781
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:08,860
we did actually manage to get through

782
00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:11,470
Freedom of Information the FAA radar

783
00:36:15,420 --> 00:36:13,840
data because the surrounding military

784
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:15,430
installations surprisingly said they had

785
00:36:20,370 --> 00:36:18,310
none but yet the FAA did and we're

786
00:36:23,460 --> 00:36:20,380
finding some very interesting things

787
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:23,470
about that FAA radar data specifically

788
00:36:28,650 --> 00:36:26,320
where those f-16s were that the Air

789
00:36:31,290 --> 00:36:28,660
Force blamed the sighting on and also

790
00:36:32,910 --> 00:36:31,300
some anomalies all in in addition to

791
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:32,920
that in fact we're going to be releasing

792
00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:34,570
a report on that shortly that's going to

793
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:36,340
be in the MUFON Journal and I think

794
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:37,570
you'll find the radar data to be very

795
00:36:45,780 --> 00:36:40,480
interesting okay thank you another

796
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:45,790
question yes my name is a VP I served as

797
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:49,510
chair of Chinese UFO research

798
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:52,390
organization for four years which is for

799
00:36:58,859 --> 00:36:56,290
me UFO research already in China which

800
00:37:02,970 --> 00:36:58,869
is still now active I have one question

801
00:37:07,260 --> 00:37:02,980
for chance how many percentage of the

802
00:37:13,620 --> 00:37:07,270
so-called UFO abduction cases how many

803
00:37:15,740 --> 00:37:13,630
of the abductees are Asian I'm sorry how

804
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:15,750
many of the UFO the abductions were

805
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:20,560
a-changin Oh Asian to be honest I'm not

806
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:22,000
sure I don't know if we have those

807
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:25,090
demographics to mind if Danny is almost

808
00:37:31,770 --> 00:37:29,250
none we didn't find any in China okay

809
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:31,780
what this is

810
00:37:41,550 --> 00:37:35,890
unions are selective that's my question

811
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:41,560
thank you thank you did you want me to

812
00:37:46,670 --> 00:37:43,090
comment anybody would come in on that

813
00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:46,680
besides James okay

814
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:50,710
did you have one I work with a guy was

815
00:37:57,300 --> 00:37:54,490
on dr. Wolf's alpha comm team and he

816
00:37:59,220 --> 00:37:57,310
claims that court documents he read when

817
00:38:02,400 --> 00:37:59,230
he was working with Michael whoof that

818
00:38:04,380 --> 00:38:02,410
there were over two at least 200 crashes

819
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:04,390
worldwide now if their technology so

820
00:38:10,890 --> 00:38:06,400
advanced why are there so many crashes

821
00:38:14,339 --> 00:38:10,900
any comments well I could comment on

822
00:38:15,870 --> 00:38:14,349
that there's some I think strong

823
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:15,880
evidence that we were aggressively

824
00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:17,530
trying to shoot him down for the purpose

825
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:19,480
of recovering the craft and figured out

826
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:21,490
how they work not only us but the

827
00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:23,890
Soviets that doesn't account necessarily

828
00:38:30,260 --> 00:38:25,480
for all of them though that would be my

829
00:38:30,270 --> 00:38:40,030
okay

830
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:42,160
as you know in the history of science

831
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:45,110
and technology every now and again there

832
00:38:51,310 --> 00:38:47,450
are events that define a tipping point

833
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:51,320
they define the point when a phenomena

834
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:52,370
is undeniable

835
00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:54,560
so when Columbus attempted to sell

836
00:38:58,600 --> 00:38:56,750
around the earth and he made the

837
00:39:01,420 --> 00:38:58,610
progress that he made eventually that

838
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:01,430
was a turning point in our awareness or

839
00:39:06,580 --> 00:39:04,130
when the Wright brothers got off with 18

840
00:39:09,220 --> 00:39:06,590
seconds there was again a moment in time

841
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:09,230
when we knew that something different

842
00:39:13,390 --> 00:39:11,930
had happened and now I hear a comment

843
00:39:17,770 --> 00:39:13,400
about how somebody claiming that there's

844
00:39:19,450 --> 00:39:17,780
been over 200 crashes of sites of craft

845
00:39:23,290 --> 00:39:19,460
supposedly crashes or have you been shot

846
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:23,300
down or whatever and yet what the

847
00:39:28,270 --> 00:39:25,760
skeptic always argues I'm talking about

848
00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:28,280
the Michael schirmer's and so on of the

849
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:32,030
professional skeptic organization who

850
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:34,490
get paid for being skeptics is that

851
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:39,650
there really is no single event no

852
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:43,310
single piece of data like a Columbus and

853
00:39:48,550 --> 00:39:44,450
they don't use a phrase but like a

854
00:39:51,250 --> 00:39:48,560
Columbus or like a Wright brothers that

855
00:39:54,610 --> 00:39:51,260
has happened and I by the way I consider

856
00:39:58,090 --> 00:39:54,620
myself a fairly you know forward-looking

857
00:40:02,680 --> 00:39:58,100
scientist and yet in the area of quote

858
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:02,690
UFOs I'm still confused because I don't

859
00:40:09,310 --> 00:40:06,170
see that kind of evidence and yet all of

860
00:40:10,930 --> 00:40:09,320
you I presume at this point when you

861
00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:10,940
look at the totality of the evidence I'm

862
00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:12,260
getting to my question but I need to

863
00:40:16,090 --> 00:40:14,150
frame it properly because I really want

864
00:40:17,830 --> 00:40:16,100
to push you for an answer because it's

865
00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:17,840
not every day I get to it a meeting

866
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:19,640
where you've got such a group of

867
00:40:22,780 --> 00:40:21,290
distinguished people who have really

868
00:40:25,060 --> 00:40:22,790
thought about this for a long period of

869
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:25,070
time who actually have information that

870
00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:27,650
could inform someone like myself and

871
00:40:31,630 --> 00:40:29,870
before I ask my question I should tell

872
00:40:34,180 --> 00:40:31,640
you that I come from a state which has

873
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:34,190
supposedly one of the largest mass

874
00:40:42,170 --> 00:40:40,250
sightings over hours of of an anomalous

875
00:40:44,810 --> 00:40:42,180
aerial phenomena

876
00:40:45,790 --> 00:40:44,820
that was witnessed by various people at

877
00:40:48,730 --> 00:40:45,800
least within the state of Arizona

878
00:40:52,730 --> 00:40:48,740
starting from the Grand Canyon area

879
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:52,740
traveling down I 19 into Phoenix then

880
00:40:59,120 --> 00:40:55,410
all the way down to Tucson then back up

881
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:59,130
to Phoenix so it was witnessed by maybe

882
00:41:03,710 --> 00:41:02,160
tens of thousands of people over a long

883
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:03,720
term and you're moving towards a

884
00:41:08,420 --> 00:41:06,720
question yes and yet and I've seen

885
00:41:10,580 --> 00:41:08,430
videotapes and I've know the people

886
00:41:15,890 --> 00:41:10,590
involved and so on

887
00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:15,900
and yet I myself still question how to

888
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:19,710
interpret such phenomenon so my question

889
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:24,050
is if you were to pick the one best

890
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:27,690
firmest piece of and I will call it

891
00:41:37,370 --> 00:41:31,910
physical evidence either at being an

892
00:41:41,090 --> 00:41:37,380
indentation in property or some verified

893
00:41:44,060 --> 00:41:41,100
piece of foreign craft or something

894
00:41:46,190 --> 00:41:44,070
that would say well yes they've been 200

895
00:41:50,090 --> 00:41:46,200
reports of crashes but we don't have a

896
00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:50,100
single piece of you know verifiable or

897
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:52,440
photographed or some credible piece of

898
00:41:57,110 --> 00:41:54,090
interest and I'm asking this question of

899
00:41:58,880 --> 00:41:57,120
John first because I'd like you to I'd

900
00:42:01,040 --> 00:41:58,890
like you to say to me in public

901
00:42:05,420 --> 00:42:01,050
g-gary of all the stuff that I've heard

902
00:42:09,290 --> 00:42:05,430
the single single most Wright brothers

903
00:42:13,370 --> 00:42:09,300
like phenomena is echo I'm glad you gave

904
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:13,380
that example the Wright brothers if you

905
00:42:17,420 --> 00:42:15,510
go to Brazil they will take great

906
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:17,430
deference to what you said because they

907
00:42:21,650 --> 00:42:19,890
believed their pilot was up before the

908
00:42:24,770 --> 00:42:21,660
Wright brothers so it's an interesting

909
00:42:28,670 --> 00:42:24,780
example of perception I think the

910
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:28,680
perception of the skeptics both of us is

911
00:42:33,290 --> 00:42:30,210
they're not skeptics at all

912
00:42:35,530 --> 00:42:33,300
they're debunkers and when faced by any

913
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:35,540
amount of information

914
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:41,010
we'll just reject it a priori the other

915
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:43,650
thing that happens in dealing with a

916
00:42:47,980 --> 00:42:45,200
skeptical community they will

917
00:42:51,310 --> 00:42:47,990
up with well maybe it was a you know

918
00:42:55,140 --> 00:42:51,320
pick your thing that fills him up you

919
00:42:58,180 --> 00:42:55,150
know a small part of the observation

920
00:43:00,250 --> 00:42:58,190
disregards the rest of the data and then

921
00:43:02,109 --> 00:43:00,260
says and therefore you know we've

922
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:02,119
disproved it and now in your field

923
00:43:11,380 --> 00:43:04,609
you've run into this I'm sure I mean

924
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:11,390
great detail well let me let me comment

925
00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:13,609
and that particular point the nature of

926
00:43:18,970 --> 00:43:16,460
your question moves in a direction away

927
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:18,980
from the data the data we have is the

928
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:20,960
only available data and if you look at

929
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:23,200
those data you find mountains of

930
00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:25,730
detailed observations that are radar

931
00:43:32,349 --> 00:43:27,980
visual cases that have been studied for

932
00:43:34,510 --> 00:43:32,359
decades which overwhelming evidence now

933
00:43:36,310 --> 00:43:34,520
if you say can I see the parts that

934
00:43:38,530 --> 00:43:36,320
we've got recovered from crash saucers

935
00:43:41,140 --> 00:43:38,540
the answer is no because they are

936
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:41,150
classified that's my answer and and

937
00:43:59,609 --> 00:43:43,730
therefore that's the simple reason it's

938
00:44:07,930 --> 00:44:04,660
can i address Ted Phillips has over

939
00:44:09,579 --> 00:44:07,940
3,000 trace evidence cases that he's

940
00:44:12,220 --> 00:44:09,589
investigated throughout the years we're

941
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:12,230
talking about landing cases indentations

942
00:44:18,010 --> 00:44:16,400
in the soil radioactivity above you know

943
00:44:19,780 --> 00:44:18,020
the ambient environment and so on if

944
00:44:23,500 --> 00:44:19,790
you're talking about physical evidence

945
00:44:24,730 --> 00:44:23,510
in terms of a piece of a UFO we don't

946
00:44:27,490 --> 00:44:24,740
have any of that now interestingly

947
00:44:31,569 --> 00:44:27,500
enough I just came back from Maine on a

948
00:44:34,690 --> 00:44:31,579
case where some guy back in 1976 saw a

949
00:44:36,970 --> 00:44:34,700
UFO flying over a lake four times and

950
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:36,980
the third time he saw it and he alleges

951
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:38,450
that he shot at it with a homemade

952
00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:42,890
mortar yes that was my initial reaction

953
00:44:47,740 --> 00:44:46,310
to well but you know but when it comes

954
00:44:49,809 --> 00:44:47,750
to physical evidence this is really the

955
00:44:51,309 --> 00:44:49,819
Holy Grail I mean if we had a piece of a

956
00:44:53,020 --> 00:44:51,319
UFO that we could demonstrate to the

957
00:44:55,359 --> 00:44:53,030
world that is of non terrestrial origin

958
00:44:56,559 --> 00:44:55,369
I think in our case would be solved so

959
00:44:57,930 --> 00:44:56,569
of course whenever whenever we get a

960
00:45:01,049 --> 00:44:57,940
story like this we have to follow

961
00:45:02,490 --> 00:45:01,059
on it so he went up there and we did due

962
00:45:06,420 --> 00:45:02,500
diligence and we didn't come home with

963
00:45:09,710 --> 00:45:06,430
any fragments I don't think you're ever

964
00:45:13,410 --> 00:45:09,720
going to see probably the kind of

965
00:45:16,829 --> 00:45:13,420
unsinkable isolated or the monster dove

966
00:45:19,289 --> 00:45:16,839
things like Columbus's landing in this

967
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:19,299
field but I think when the history of

968
00:45:26,099 --> 00:45:23,680
this phenomenon or these phenomena is

969
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:26,109
written and probably the crash at

970
00:45:32,609 --> 00:45:30,010
Roswell will have the dubious honor of

971
00:45:35,309 --> 00:45:32,619
being the most important as far as its

972
00:45:37,410 --> 00:45:35,319
consequences are concerned it started

973
00:45:40,589 --> 00:45:37,420
the most action that got the most people

974
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:40,599
involved it it resulted in legislation

975
00:45:48,140 --> 00:45:44,079
and and research and operations and so

976
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:48,150
on now we had in Canada Wilbert Smith

977
00:45:54,690 --> 00:45:51,250
one of our pioneers who had actually had

978
00:45:57,210 --> 00:45:54,700
some pieces of this stuff which must

979
00:46:01,339 --> 00:45:57,220
have come from the Roswell crash and he

980
00:46:04,260 --> 00:46:01,349
had analyzed and it was otherworldly and

981
00:46:06,510 --> 00:46:04,270
he wrote reports about it which I

982
00:46:08,450 --> 00:46:06,520
presume are still there and which we

983
00:46:11,309 --> 00:46:08,460
could maybe lay our hands on if we want

984
00:46:15,059 --> 00:46:11,319
but it had characteristics which were

985
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:15,069
unlike metals that anybody on earth had

986
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:17,440
ever seen and this is the kind of thing

987
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:19,210
that was going on elsewhere you can be

988
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:23,770
very very sure and I think he when he

989
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:28,450
gave the theses back I can't remember

990
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:31,510
exactly the quotations but he was asked

991
00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:35,490
where he delivered it and I think

992
00:46:39,269 --> 00:46:37,900
somebody said did he deliver it to the

993
00:46:42,930 --> 00:46:39,279
United States Air Force and he said no

994
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:42,940
higher than that and then when they

995
00:46:47,039 --> 00:46:44,710
pressed the question one more time he

996
00:46:48,380 --> 00:46:47,049
said well I can't answer any further

997
00:46:51,569 --> 00:46:48,390
than I already have

998
00:46:56,910 --> 00:46:51,579
but he had he had some of this stuff and

999
00:47:01,170 --> 00:46:56,920
and he he had contacts and he found out

1000
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:01,180
things from his contacts such as they

1001
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:08,700
information to build a machine to

1002
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:13,090
determine the location of vortices both

1003
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:16,000
those created by the UFOs and created by

1004
00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:19,570
us in order to try to avoid so many

1005
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:21,420
crashes that were resulting from

1006
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:23,760
turbulence and this sort of thing and

1007
00:47:28,140 --> 00:47:26,890
and he also found out from them one of

1008
00:47:31,350 --> 00:47:28,150
the reasons that there were so many

1009
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:31,360
early quiet crashes was the fact that

1010
00:47:38,430 --> 00:47:33,250
our pilots were getting too close to the

1011
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:38,440
to the UFOs though the alien said that

1012
00:47:42,930 --> 00:47:40,690
they thought that was really incredible

1013
00:47:44,010 --> 00:47:42,940
stupidity on the part of the pilots I

1014
00:47:46,140 --> 00:47:44,020
would add on the part of their

1015
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:46,150
commanders who sent them chasing after

1016
00:47:52,050 --> 00:47:47,890
UFO was without knowing what they were

1017
00:47:54,300 --> 00:47:52,060
getting on getting into but one of the

1018
00:47:58,140 --> 00:47:54,310
problems they ran into when they got too

1019
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:58,150
close to the UFOs was in some cases they

1020
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:00,640
created what they called as a

1021
00:48:08,190 --> 00:48:05,370
combination of magnetic time fields

1022
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:08,200
which changed the molecular composition

1023
00:48:15,690 --> 00:48:13,030
of the metal in the aircraft that were

1024
00:48:18,750 --> 00:48:15,700
coming up behind them and so the metal

1025
00:48:19,830 --> 00:48:18,760
just came apart and that this was one of

1026
00:48:21,740 --> 00:48:19,840
the reasons that there were so many

1027
00:48:24,450 --> 00:48:21,750
crashes for quite a long while that

1028
00:48:26,490 --> 00:48:24,460
seemed to be unexplained at the time so

1029
00:48:30,410 --> 00:48:26,500
there's there's lots of stuff out there

1030
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:30,420
but the propensity seems to be to

1031
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:33,280
downplay it and and debunk it rather

1032
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:34,810
than trying to get it up into the

1033
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:37,210
scientific community and I think Claude

1034
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:41,170
and then Jerome want to come in I was

1035
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:44,530
just thinking back to when I convinced

1036
00:48:51,210 --> 00:48:47,680
myself that they were real I think it

1037
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:51,220
was after subscribing to a publication

1038
00:48:56,940 --> 00:48:55,210
by a man named Lucius parish in Arkansas

1039
00:49:01,770 --> 00:48:56,950
called the UFO news clipping service

1040
00:49:04,350 --> 00:49:01,780
every month he Xeroxes local papal

1041
00:49:07,140 --> 00:49:04,360
newspaper accounts from around the world

1042
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:07,150
with local accounts of sightings and

1043
00:49:10,010 --> 00:49:09,010
these are usually multiple witnesses

1044
00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:10,020
often

1045
00:49:16,820 --> 00:49:13,710
very responsible you know important

1046
00:49:18,850 --> 00:49:16,830
person is just in the towns all local

1047
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:18,860
newspapers these are really high quality

1048
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:22,530
sightings when you read them and you

1049
00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:25,650
wonder well why didn't I ever hear about

1050
00:49:30,890 --> 00:49:29,310
these and it's what the only possible

1051
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:30,900
answer is that when these things get

1052
00:49:35,870 --> 00:49:33,450
turned into the wire surface the wire

1053
00:49:37,550 --> 00:49:35,880
service never reports them so this kind

1054
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:37,560
of appears to become a blackout between

1055
00:49:41,180 --> 00:49:40,170
the local papers and the wire service so

1056
00:49:44,510 --> 00:49:41,190
that some of these things would have

1057
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:44,520
made you know evening news headlines if

1058
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:47,130
there were an ability to report them and

1059
00:49:51,410 --> 00:49:48,810
I think that that's one of the missing

1060
00:49:54,170 --> 00:49:51,420
pieces maybe we're kind of all waiting

1061
00:49:56,210 --> 00:49:54,180
for the anchorman to come on the evening

1062
00:49:58,310 --> 00:49:56,220
news and tell us these things happen and

1063
00:50:01,070 --> 00:49:58,320
I don't think it's going to happen but

1064
00:50:02,990 --> 00:50:01,080
what I realized that all these sightings

1065
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:03,000
do happen locally it really changed my

1066
00:50:09,710 --> 00:50:07,050
mind about the whole process yeah I'd

1067
00:50:12,490 --> 00:50:09,720
like to put aside you know the more

1068
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:12,500
nebulous and controversial and unproved

1069
00:50:17,180 --> 00:50:15,420
stories about concealed evidence and

1070
00:50:19,730 --> 00:50:17,190
context with space people and those

1071
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:19,740
kinds of things which I mean they're

1072
00:50:23,090 --> 00:50:21,450
interesting but I don't know that the

1073
00:50:25,340 --> 00:50:23,100
evidence is very good the evidence for a

1074
00:50:27,730 --> 00:50:25,350
physical UFO phenomenon is very good and

1075
00:50:31,070 --> 00:50:27,740
the simple answer to your question is

1076
00:50:34,190 --> 00:50:31,080
look go and look up dick Hall Richard

1077
00:50:37,370 --> 00:50:34,200
halls book the UFO evidence look up my

1078
00:50:40,190 --> 00:50:37,380
UFO encyclopedia which has long detailed

1079
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:40,200
case histories of hard evidence cases

1080
00:50:47,150 --> 00:50:43,290
like the transcend province see to the

1081
00:50:49,700 --> 00:50:47,160
RB 47 case in a number of cases radar

1082
00:50:52,430 --> 00:50:49,710
visuals physical trace cases which were

1083
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:52,440
well investigated well documented that

1084
00:50:57,740 --> 00:50:54,570
are available in the literature dick

1085
00:50:59,870 --> 00:50:57,750
Hall does a very good job of laying out

1086
00:51:03,620 --> 00:50:59,880
all the evidence in his the UFO evidence

1087
00:51:06,140 --> 00:51:03,630
and I will let others know judge what

1088
00:51:07,849 --> 00:51:06,150
kind of job I do it Mike Bellone books

1089
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:07,859
with laying out the evidence but it's

1090
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:09,570
there and it's available and yours is a

1091
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:11,730
good question the answer is and isn't

1092
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:17,369
isn't the good literature just why

1093
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:20,970
Claude just raised an excellent point

1094
00:51:25,069 --> 00:51:23,250
and I don't think it's an embargo

1095
00:51:31,039 --> 00:51:25,079
between the local news and the babe

1096
00:51:33,770 --> 00:51:31,049
there is just a ton of a self-imposed a

1097
00:51:36,140 --> 00:51:33,780
giggle factor if you look at any of the

1098
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:36,150
programs that are out there you never

1099
00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:39,210
find them reporting ufos straight up

1100
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:41,730
it's always ha ha ha well look at the

1101
00:51:45,950 --> 00:51:43,530
little green men

1102
00:51:49,370 --> 00:51:45,960
Dateline just that you know 10 best

1103
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:49,380
cases and interestingly you know in all

1104
00:51:56,299 --> 00:51:51,359
the breaks you see little green men

1105
00:51:59,210 --> 00:51:56,309
popping up and things like that on that

1106
00:52:01,819 --> 00:51:59,220
point that's probably true but was it

1107
00:52:08,329 --> 00:52:01,829
true in 1954 I think the media handled

1108
00:52:10,700 --> 00:52:08,339
it differently well there was so well

1109
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:10,710
remember initially it was what the

1110
00:52:15,859 --> 00:52:12,720
hell's going on you know and that went

1111
00:52:17,780 --> 00:52:15,869
on for a while but over time because in

1112
00:52:20,030 --> 00:52:17,790
large part because of the scientific

1113
00:52:24,170 --> 00:52:20,040
community who have seen this so

1114
00:52:26,839 --> 00:52:24,180
negatively and have made major inroads

1115
00:52:30,049 --> 00:52:26,849
in the press to get a fair hearing there

1116
00:52:35,780 --> 00:52:30,059
is really really tough okay we had a

1117
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:35,790
question over here a quick question for

1118
00:52:43,130 --> 00:52:40,290
dr. Alexander Phillip Corsos follow-up

1119
00:52:44,569 --> 00:52:43,140
book do you know where that is and do

1120
00:52:45,319 --> 00:52:44,579
you know if that'll be published she

1121
00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:45,329
died

1122
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:50,760
see I know it was if you know fell he

1123
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:53,700
was not computer literate I have a hand

1124
00:52:57,410 --> 00:52:55,410
copy of the first one I mean it is

1125
00:53:00,049 --> 00:52:57,420
literally written out by hand a few

1126
00:53:02,059 --> 00:53:00,059
pages tight but unfortunately he

1127
00:53:08,030 --> 00:53:02,069
transitioned before we could get any

1128
00:53:10,670 --> 00:53:08,040
further okay we have another question is

1129
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,680
it on yeah all right I wanted to talk to

1130
00:53:14,990 --> 00:53:12,960
the issue about evidence and conclusions

1131
00:53:17,690 --> 00:53:15,000
there are two comments I'd like to make

1132
00:53:20,180 --> 00:53:17,700
first of all I did a study the meteorite

1133
00:53:22,220 --> 00:53:20,190
controversy in the 18th century and here

1134
00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:22,230
is a very interesting example of how

1135
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:25,500
people deal with evidence a lot of times

1136
00:53:29,660 --> 00:53:27,510
the evidence may be in somebody's hands

1137
00:53:31,460 --> 00:53:29,670
but unless you have a scientific theory

1138
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:31,470
the background basically to interpret it

1139
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:33,089
you won't know what it is the French

1140
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:34,410
Academy of Science was sent

1141
00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:35,970
three meteorites from three different

1142
00:53:41,150 --> 00:53:38,760
sources they couldn't basically see

1143
00:53:43,130 --> 00:53:41,160
anything distinctive about them and said

1144
00:53:45,230 --> 00:53:43,140
basically there's nothing to it except

1145
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:45,240
maybe the lightning hits pyrite that's

1146
00:53:49,819 --> 00:53:47,609
what they said okay and I can give you

1147
00:53:51,140 --> 00:53:49,829
more chapter and verse on that that's

1148
00:53:53,420 --> 00:53:51,150
the second thing that I wanted to

1149
00:53:58,339 --> 00:53:53,430
comment on is in terms there's a

1150
00:54:02,349 --> 00:53:58,349
question in that well I know a little

1151
00:54:05,210 --> 00:54:02,359
about this too the second question the

1152
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:05,220
second observation which the panelist

1153
00:54:10,940 --> 00:54:08,400
invited to comment on is when we think

1154
00:54:14,059 --> 00:54:10,950
about the Sociology and that's what it

1155
00:54:17,150 --> 00:54:14,069
is of what's out there we really need to

1156
00:54:19,460 --> 00:54:17,160
use our imaginations because the problem

1157
00:54:22,339 --> 00:54:19,470
is is that the tremendous variety of

1158
00:54:25,069 --> 00:54:22,349
life in the universe lends itself to a

1159
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:25,079
huge number of constellations which may

1160
00:54:29,539 --> 00:54:26,730
be very difficult for us to interpret

1161
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:29,549
because we only have one example of an

1162
00:54:33,710 --> 00:54:32,130
intelligent species but if there are

1163
00:54:35,450 --> 00:54:33,720
other examples they could work quite

1164
00:54:38,299 --> 00:54:35,460
differently than we do and it's very

1165
00:54:40,130 --> 00:54:38,309
difficult to use the kind of imagination

1166
00:54:42,620 --> 00:54:40,140
we need to imagine what they might do

1167
00:54:54,140 --> 00:54:42,630
and what their actual moves are likely

1168
00:54:56,029 --> 00:54:54,150
to imply okay well those have been very

1169
00:54:58,940 --> 00:54:56,039
Illumina stress targets very

1170
00:55:00,890 --> 00:54:58,950
illuminating for me but as the scientist

1171
00:55:03,260 --> 00:55:00,900
it seems increasingly from what the

1172
00:55:05,630 --> 00:55:03,270
panelists have said is that the UFO

1173
00:55:09,049 --> 00:55:05,640
question is not at all a scientific

1174
00:55:11,450 --> 00:55:09,059
question which surprised me it seems to

1175
00:55:14,510 --> 00:55:11,460
be more of a geopolitical question for

1176
00:55:16,519 --> 00:55:14,520
example Paul Hellyer and John Alexander

1177
00:55:18,589 --> 00:55:16,529
says yes there are people in the

1178
00:55:20,839 --> 00:55:18,599
government who know the answer they have

1179
00:55:24,019 --> 00:55:20,849
the pieces they'll probably kill you if

1180
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:24,029
you try and get them but the answer is

1181
00:55:29,269 --> 00:55:26,250
known and we're playing a kind of

1182
00:55:31,250 --> 00:55:29,279
scientific I've got a secret rather than

1183
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:31,260
trying to discover what's actually

1184
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:33,599
happening perhaps we should expend our

1185
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:36,210
efforts rather than looking at the sky

1186
00:55:41,210 --> 00:55:38,730
trying to get in touch with the people

1187
00:55:45,180 --> 00:55:41,220
who know the answers and find out what

1188
00:55:51,670 --> 00:55:48,760
well I would categorically disagree with

1189
00:55:58,720 --> 00:55:51,680
that I don't think it's there Kali

1190
00:56:02,049 --> 00:55:58,730
believes it is I did not he didn't say

1191
00:56:08,620 --> 00:56:02,059
that I said it say that I said he

1192
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:08,630
disagrees Bob can I address that oh I'm

1193
00:56:13,630 --> 00:56:08,930
sorry

1194
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:13,640
sure MUFON sponsored a conference last

1195
00:56:18,339 --> 00:56:16,160
year on this very question how do we

1196
00:56:20,500 --> 00:56:18,349
engage mainstream science into looking

1197
00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:20,510
at this phenomena with all the ambiguity

1198
00:56:25,029 --> 00:56:23,390
that's inherent and what we decided is

1199
00:56:28,599 --> 00:56:25,039
maybe we're engaging the wrong type of

1200
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:28,609
scientists maybe we need to look is not

1201
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:30,890
at the physical sciences but start

1202
00:56:34,569 --> 00:56:32,930
looking at the early evidence for this

1203
00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:34,579
phenomenon government which would have

1204
00:56:38,289 --> 00:56:36,079
the most interest in the phenomenon to

1205
00:56:40,059 --> 00:56:38,299
begin with so there are vast amounts of

1206
00:56:42,220 --> 00:56:40,069
documents out there in national archives

1207
00:56:43,329 --> 00:56:42,230
that have yet to be looked at so what we

1208
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:43,339
need to recruit are a lot more

1209
00:56:46,329 --> 00:56:44,720
historians that are going to go out

1210
00:56:47,799 --> 00:56:46,339
there and start digging up these

1211
00:56:50,260 --> 00:56:47,809
documents for us and looking for

1212
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,270
patterns and activity not necessarily

1213
00:56:54,670 --> 00:56:52,400
The Smoking Gun that says we we have a

1214
00:56:56,829 --> 00:56:54,680
captured UFO but looking at just the

1215
00:56:58,750 --> 00:56:56,839
patterns of government agencies and what

1216
00:57:00,760 --> 00:56:58,760
they were doing at those times so there

1217
00:57:05,799 --> 00:57:00,770
are things that we can do and we're

1218
00:57:07,599 --> 00:57:05,809
working on those okay I I really don't

1219
00:57:10,089 --> 00:57:07,609
really want to speak but I have to do

1220
00:57:12,370 --> 00:57:10,099
this because I'm the journalist abroad

1221
00:57:14,859 --> 00:57:12,380
colonel philip corso to Italy and he did

1222
00:57:17,380 --> 00:57:14,869
speak quite a bit over there he gave us

1223
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:17,390
his personal notes which were the notes

1224
00:57:23,079 --> 00:57:20,720
on which the day after Roswell were

1225
00:57:25,420 --> 00:57:23,089
published he gave us permission to

1226
00:57:27,549 --> 00:57:25,430
publish the book dawn of a new age if

1227
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:27,559
you go to Italy I've been speaking to

1228
00:57:32,819 --> 00:57:29,450
several people you can buy it in a

1229
00:57:35,980 --> 00:57:32,829
bookstore they are his original notes

1230
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:35,990
these notes his son said would be

1231
00:57:40,690 --> 00:57:37,970
published in this country courser wrote

1232
00:57:43,180 --> 00:57:40,700
three books the day after Dallas about

1233
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:43,190
the Kennedy assassination he whirled a

1234
00:57:47,319 --> 00:57:44,960
book called the man who saved Rome about

1235
00:57:50,019 --> 00:57:47,329
the creation of the CIA because the

1236
00:57:52,839 --> 00:57:50,029
current Colonel Corso was the head of

1237
00:57:55,299 --> 00:57:52,849
intelligence in Rome in 1944 this is not

1238
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:55,309
just somebody off the street and we've

1239
00:57:58,299 --> 00:57:57,410
checked all his credentials in Italy we

1240
00:58:00,609 --> 00:57:58,309
were able to do

1241
00:58:02,819 --> 00:58:00,619
lot with him in Italy and he did leave

1242
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:02,829
us that manuscript which is still around

1243
00:58:08,049 --> 00:58:05,839
but for some reason it is not published

1244
00:58:10,059 --> 00:58:08,059
in America it's called aloud but in

1245
00:58:12,729 --> 00:58:10,069
another era if you go to it illegal in

1246
00:58:20,130 --> 00:58:12,739
the bookstore get it thank you

1247
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:22,809
several people have mentioned about the

1248
00:58:26,709 --> 00:58:25,130
necessity of digging into archives and

1249
00:58:29,049 --> 00:58:26,719
historical documents and I just wanted

1250
00:58:32,979 --> 00:58:29,059
to let people know it in this audience

1251
00:58:34,539 --> 00:58:32,989
and if if they don't already know that

1252
00:58:37,870 --> 00:58:34,549
there is a source called newspaper

1253
00:58:41,289 --> 00:58:37,880
archives which has approximately 79

1254
00:58:43,539 --> 00:58:41,299
million pages of newspapers of something

1255
00:58:45,099 --> 00:58:43,549
like 2700 different newspapers and you

1256
00:58:48,719 --> 00:58:45,109
can go back and actually read the

1257
00:58:51,729 --> 00:58:48,729
original stories in the in newspapers

1258
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:51,739
about the airships or about early

1259
00:58:56,890 --> 00:58:54,170
sightings they may not have been called

1260
00:59:00,370 --> 00:58:56,900
UFOs but if you look up use certain

1261
00:59:02,919 --> 00:59:00,380
terminology like airships or something

1262
00:59:05,979 --> 00:59:02,929
like that you can find all kinds of

1263
00:59:08,259 --> 00:59:05,989
things from way back in and this archive

1264
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:08,269
goes it's online and it's available you

1265
00:59:11,739 --> 00:59:10,130
have to pay a little bit but it's not

1266
00:59:15,669 --> 00:59:11,749
much and and it goes all the way back to

1267
00:59:18,609 --> 00:59:15,679
the 1700s if I could respond to that I

1268
00:59:20,650 --> 00:59:18,619
belong to a small international email

1269
00:59:24,009 --> 00:59:20,660
group called Magana exchange

1270
00:59:28,660 --> 00:59:24,019
it's an international group of Americans

1271
00:59:30,969 --> 00:59:28,670
Canadians and Europeans who are doing

1272
00:59:33,699 --> 00:59:30,979
extensive archival research and we've

1273
00:59:35,559 --> 00:59:33,709
pretty much bled newspaper exchange dry

1274
00:59:37,809 --> 00:59:35,569
but there are all kinds of archives

1275
00:59:40,809 --> 00:59:37,819
including free ones that are popping up

1276
00:59:43,929 --> 00:59:40,819
in fact much of the material I use in my

1277
00:59:45,609 --> 00:59:43,939
lecture today I got off my archival

1278
00:59:49,589 --> 00:59:45,619
exchanges in fact I even wrote a book

1279
00:59:53,049 --> 00:59:49,599
based upon my archival research in the

1280
00:59:56,410 --> 00:59:53,059
1919 century for Tiana and anomalies and

1281
00:59:58,539 --> 00:59:56,420
proto UFOs called a natural phenomena

1282
00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:58,549
and that book comes out of that and I'm

1283
01:00:03,489 --> 00:59:59,839
glad you brought that up because that is

1284
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:03,499
incredibly useful research tool ok thank

1285
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:05,250
you we have another question

1286
01:00:12,589 --> 01:00:09,330
I think that the problem is too much

1287
01:00:15,230 --> 01:00:12,599
evidence discussion in the collecting

1288
01:00:18,650 --> 01:00:15,240
data and nothing from the scientific

1289
01:00:22,460 --> 01:00:18,660
from the science I have been working

1290
01:00:26,570 --> 01:00:22,470
about 30 years in space research half of

1291
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:26,580
this time I have worked with programs

1292
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:29,520
coordinated by the Soviet Union half of

1293
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:31,650
the time I am working here in Canada

1294
01:00:40,550 --> 01:00:37,310
never ever I have been I have seen this

1295
01:00:44,420 --> 01:00:40,560
problem to be put in front of the

1296
01:00:46,910 --> 01:00:44,430
scientific community and it is known

1297
01:00:51,260 --> 01:00:46,920
that the same science now is funded by

1298
01:00:54,140 --> 01:00:51,270
the government so if you want to do some

1299
01:00:58,300 --> 01:00:54,150
kind of research there is not a way you

1300
01:01:02,410 --> 01:00:58,310
could apply for some kind of fund and

1301
01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:02,420
what do tell me how this issue could be

1302
01:01:09,290 --> 01:01:06,119
resolved I think it is a fundamental

1303
01:01:15,079 --> 01:01:09,300
question for the science to explain how

1304
01:01:28,609 --> 01:01:15,089
we're for make a right with acceleration

1305
01:01:34,700 --> 01:01:28,619
about 50 to 100 G so a very strange

1306
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:34,710
question no my interpretation of the

1307
01:01:39,980 --> 01:01:37,290
question is what's the process whereby

1308
01:01:41,780 --> 01:01:39,990
we put scientists on solving some pretty

1309
01:01:44,030 --> 01:01:41,790
obvious things that are not not very

1310
01:01:46,030 --> 01:01:44,040
clear that's how do you do a 100 G turn

1311
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:46,040
if you have people inside the craft

1312
01:01:53,859 --> 01:01:48,960
without having some new science added to

1313
01:02:03,470 --> 01:01:56,359
we don't start with the University of

1314
01:02:07,370 --> 01:02:03,480
Colorado I know that there was you were

1315
01:02:11,570 --> 01:02:07,380
next given since we're talking about

1316
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:11,580
science given the fact that in last year

1317
01:02:15,820 --> 01:02:14,130
we astronomers have discovered all types

1318
01:02:17,530 --> 01:02:15,830
of extrasolar planets and

1319
01:02:21,580 --> 01:02:17,540
I think last November the first

1320
01:02:23,770 --> 01:02:21,590
earth-like extrasolar planet nASA has

1321
01:02:25,780 --> 01:02:23,780
reopened the SETI program I don't think

1322
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:25,790
they would have just done that but they

1323
01:02:30,250 --> 01:02:28,490
did that unless they had something some

1324
01:02:33,850 --> 01:02:30,260
reason for Oprah reopening their SETI

1325
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:33,860
program after I think 20 years we

1326
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:36,010
mentioned already all the countries

1327
01:02:40,990 --> 01:02:38,570
allowing their file secret files to be

1328
01:02:43,870 --> 01:02:41,000
opened about four weeks ago the Pope

1329
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:43,880
said that aliens are okay with the

1330
01:02:49,570 --> 01:02:45,890
Catholic religion it seems to me there's

1331
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:49,580
a trend here if if the UFOs aren't

1332
01:02:55,210 --> 01:02:51,200
announced soon if there isn't evidence

1333
01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:55,220
soon by 2020 we're gonna have telescopes

1334
01:03:00,930 --> 01:02:56,720
so you'll be looking at continents and

1335
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:00,940
islands on planets 20 light years away

1336
01:03:09,310 --> 01:03:03,170
are UFOs going to come out before

1337
01:03:11,350 --> 01:03:09,320
science discovers them is a historian of

1338
01:03:13,810 --> 01:03:11,360
the phenomenon I might have a little

1339
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:13,820
perspective on what you just said so

1340
01:03:17,290 --> 01:03:15,680
many things that seem fresh and novel

1341
01:03:19,060 --> 01:03:17,300
and including speculation that the

1342
01:03:21,070 --> 01:03:19,070
breakthrough is coming any day

1343
01:03:24,340 --> 01:03:21,080
we're being softened up for the big

1344
01:03:26,770 --> 01:03:24,350
revelation so that basically begins to

1345
01:03:30,190 --> 01:03:26,780
show up very early in the history of the

1346
01:03:33,190 --> 01:03:30,200
UFO controversy by the late 1940s rumors

1347
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:33,200
like that were circulating so no I don't

1348
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:34,850
think there's we're being softened up I

1349
01:03:38,110 --> 01:03:36,410
don't think anything spectacular is

1350
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:38,120
going to happen it's just going to be

1351
01:03:42,910 --> 01:03:40,610
more the same and on a factual matter

1352
01:03:49,410 --> 01:03:42,920
I don't think NASA runs the SETI program

1353
01:03:52,900 --> 01:03:52,240
it doesn't fund it yeah I didn't I

1354
01:03:58,480 --> 01:03:52,910
didn't think so

1355
01:04:01,510 --> 01:03:58,490
okay I thought that the SETI program was

1356
01:04:08,350 --> 01:04:01,520
in private funding it's still private

1357
01:04:11,940 --> 01:04:08,360
funding of it okay as a science teacher

1358
01:04:15,940 --> 01:04:11,950
of elementary and high school students

1359
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:15,950
as we trace the history of science and

1360
01:04:23,830 --> 01:04:19,250
the achievements that we can see that we

1361
01:04:26,460 --> 01:04:23,840
have done down through the years it's

1362
01:04:29,220 --> 01:04:26,470
kind of hard for me to say to them

1363
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:29,230
but guess what the laser was the UFO

1364
01:04:38,820 --> 01:04:34,960
guys you know and the integrated circuit

1365
01:04:42,870 --> 01:04:38,830
that wasn't us either and I don't know

1366
01:04:46,260 --> 01:04:42,880
how you all can talk to your young

1367
01:04:50,810 --> 01:04:46,270
children and say to them it guess what

1368
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:50,820
it's not us it's not our science and

1369
01:05:01,520 --> 01:04:55,690
still be able to like have that glow of

1370
01:05:07,130 --> 01:05:01,530
pride as a human being I never said that

1371
01:05:09,900 --> 01:05:07,140
did oh I think it requires one of the

1372
01:05:13,349 --> 01:05:09,910
characteristics that I probably possess

1373
01:05:15,870 --> 01:05:13,359
at least forum and that's humility there

1374
01:05:18,450 --> 01:05:15,880
may be people elsewhere in the galaxy in

1375
01:05:20,970 --> 01:05:18,460
the cosmos that are more advanced than

1376
01:05:25,050 --> 01:05:20,980
we are and perhaps and we can learn from

1377
01:05:26,660 --> 01:05:25,060
them and cooperate with them and perhaps

1378
01:05:28,050 --> 01:05:26,670
they're learning some things from us

1379
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:28,060
apparently

1380
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:29,770
earth is a good place to visit or has

1381
01:05:33,810 --> 01:05:32,170
been in the past anyway and they come

1382
01:05:36,540 --> 01:05:33,820
here for their holidays probably to find

1383
01:05:37,859 --> 01:05:36,550
out what's going on and I have no doubt

1384
01:05:40,230 --> 01:05:37,869
that they have learned things from us

1385
01:05:42,089 --> 01:05:40,240
and we'll probably learn more and we

1386
01:05:45,390 --> 01:05:42,099
have still I think quite a lot to learn

1387
01:05:47,220 --> 01:05:45,400
for them without addressing the eg issue

1388
01:05:50,750 --> 01:05:47,230
if you're teaching science the history

1389
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:50,760
of science is really ugly we tend not to

1390
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:53,710
debate that we we talk about all the

1391
01:05:58,589 --> 01:05:55,450
things as if it were a straight process

1392
01:06:00,210 --> 01:05:58,599
when in fact it is a brutal nasty fight

1393
01:06:03,450 --> 01:06:00,220
that goes any probably not what you want

1394
01:06:06,030 --> 01:06:03,460
to tell you that's going into it but it

1395
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:06,040
is in many fields not uncommon to what

1396
01:06:10,020 --> 01:06:08,290
you're seeing here I would comment on

1397
01:06:12,329 --> 01:06:10,030
your question I don't think even those

1398
01:06:14,010 --> 01:06:12,339
people who might claim that there's some

1399
01:06:16,310 --> 01:06:14,020
reverse engineering at work in our

1400
01:06:19,770 --> 01:06:16,320
society today they would not claim that

1401
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:19,780
the people who got the credit for it are

1402
01:06:24,329 --> 01:06:22,240
not deserving the that most they would

1403
01:06:26,490 --> 01:06:24,339
have received is a little tiny hint and

1404
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:26,500
the work that they did was totally

1405
01:06:32,849 --> 01:06:30,160
genuine and properly recognized so can I

1406
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:32,859
comment I just want to say I'm not a

1407
01:06:38,250 --> 01:06:35,650
proponent of reverse engineering my

1408
01:06:39,670 --> 01:06:38,260
personal take on it is that were

1409
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:39,680
belittling human engine

1410
01:06:43,900 --> 01:06:42,050
and for the same reason that people try

1411
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:43,910
to blame the building of the pyramids on

1412
01:06:47,860 --> 01:06:46,370
alien intervention-- I think we're

1413
01:06:51,430 --> 01:06:47,870
taking that same line of reason here

1414
01:06:53,230 --> 01:06:51,440
with modern technology you know it's

1415
01:06:54,370 --> 01:06:53,240
amazing when you walk through Europe and

1416
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:54,380
you see some of the cathedrals that were

1417
01:06:58,120 --> 01:06:56,090
built back then with the technology that

1418
01:07:00,760 --> 01:06:58,130
they had and with the average lifespan

1419
01:07:02,590 --> 01:07:00,770
be in 30 years I think we can do a lot

1420
01:07:06,850 --> 01:07:02,600
with just our own human mind we don't

1421
01:07:10,690 --> 01:07:06,860
have to blame it on the aliens new

1422
01:07:13,150 --> 01:07:10,700
question is we actually have two

1423
01:07:17,310 --> 01:07:13,160
questions well I've got the mic II first

1424
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:17,320
have any of the panelists suffered overt

1425
01:07:22,300 --> 01:07:19,490
official interference with their work

1426
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:22,310
and the second question is there seems

1427
01:07:27,550 --> 01:07:25,490
to be a tremendous variety in size and

1428
01:07:31,390 --> 01:07:27,560
shape of the craft that are singing

1429
01:07:35,530 --> 01:07:31,400
could you comment on that as well do

1430
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:35,540
crisp questions I guess it probably

1431
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:37,370
applies to me because when I was inside

1432
01:07:42,610 --> 01:07:40,730
the system and the answer is no and you

1433
01:07:46,030 --> 01:07:42,620
know there's a great mythology that's

1434
01:07:47,650 --> 01:07:46,040
now externally if you saw the papers

1435
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:47,660
that I put up today with it getting

1436
01:07:51,850 --> 01:07:49,610
attacked by Scientific American The

1437
01:07:55,690 --> 01:07:51,860
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists you know

1438
01:07:58,510 --> 01:07:55,700
by skeptics yeah that's there but not

1439
01:08:00,370 --> 01:07:58,520
only when we ran the group and I was

1440
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:00,380
moving up the food chain not only did we

1441
01:08:05,470 --> 01:08:03,050
not run into interference with the

1442
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:05,480
exception of one case and that really

1443
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:07,760
wasn't interference we we stepped on his

1444
01:08:13,210 --> 01:08:10,490
belief system got a lot of help and a

1445
01:08:14,650 --> 01:08:13,220
lot of support a lot there is a lot of

1446
01:08:16,900 --> 01:08:14,660
high-level interest

1447
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:16,910
let's take everybody one at a time at

1448
01:08:20,830 --> 01:08:19,040
Claude have you been friends I was just

1449
01:08:23,070 --> 01:08:20,840
going to comment on the size the

1450
01:08:25,270 --> 01:08:23,080
different shapes I guess it's probably

1451
01:08:27,580 --> 01:08:25,280
not unexpected when they come from

1452
01:08:29,770 --> 01:08:27,590
different places but they range from the

1453
01:08:31,900 --> 01:08:29,780
very small fooful fighters during world

1454
01:08:35,890 --> 01:08:31,910
war ii which were very small too small

1455
01:08:39,870 --> 01:08:35,900
to accommodate a pilot through two

1456
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:39,880
reports of UFOs of mine across and

1457
01:08:45,730 --> 01:08:42,410
everything more or less in between with

1458
01:08:51,180 --> 01:08:45,740
the the most common kind being the disks

1459
01:08:57,960 --> 01:08:53,850
I have not received any kind of negative

1460
01:09:00,720 --> 01:08:57,970
feedback from employers in the past mmm

1461
01:09:03,030 --> 01:09:00,730
the only example where I was afraid of

1462
01:09:05,670 --> 01:09:03,040
one was the first time I was interviewed

1463
01:09:09,270 --> 01:09:05,680
on coast to coast in my book had just

1464
01:09:12,510 --> 01:09:09,280
come out and I worked for a engineering

1465
01:09:14,910 --> 01:09:12,520
company that did not know about my you

1466
01:09:17,940 --> 01:09:14,920
know extracurricular activity and of

1467
01:09:20,910 --> 01:09:17,950
course one of the people in my group got

1468
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:20,920
wind he was a avid art bell fan so he

1469
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:22,810
got a we had to tilt everybody else hey

1470
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:24,370
make sure you tune in tonight Claude's

1471
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:27,130
gonna be on this show and I was just

1472
01:09:33,540 --> 01:09:30,400
amazed by how positive and open-minded

1473
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:33,550
everyone was and I've not had any bad

1474
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:35,650
experiences since then as far as the

1475
01:09:40,440 --> 01:09:38,530
variety of crafts I mean my impression I

1476
01:09:42,150 --> 01:09:40,450
don't claim to know the answer but my

1477
01:09:44,550 --> 01:09:42,160
impression is there are lots of

1478
01:09:46,740 --> 01:09:44,560
different groups that are here from many

1479
01:09:48,480 --> 01:09:46,750
different places and different functions

1480
01:09:50,610 --> 01:09:48,490
and different technologies so that's a

1481
01:09:52,110 --> 01:09:50,620
possible answer and my answer would be

1482
01:09:54,300 --> 01:09:52,120
no I've never been threatened and I

1483
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:54,310
think it's many places many place that

1484
01:09:58,800 --> 01:09:56,170
there is one case and it's not somebody

1485
01:10:01,530 --> 01:09:58,810
here who I think had tremendous adverse

1486
01:10:03,510 --> 01:10:01,540
reaction that's John Mac and many of you

1487
01:10:05,730 --> 01:10:03,520
remember that after his book came out

1488
01:10:08,490 --> 01:10:05,740
here he is a tenured professor at

1489
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:08,500
Harvard Pulitzer Prize winner you know

1490
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:10,810
all of the criteria you can imagine and

1491
01:10:15,570 --> 01:10:13,090
they tried to sanction him I mean there

1492
01:10:18,590 --> 01:10:15,580
was an overt move to try and get a

1493
01:10:20,460 --> 01:10:18,600
tenured professor out so it does happen

1494
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:20,470
okay we have another question back here

1495
01:10:24,180 --> 01:10:22,690
hi I just wanted to get back to

1496
01:10:25,710 --> 01:10:24,190
Jacques fellows point of view for a

1497
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:25,720
second because it seems to me a point of

1498
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:27,010
view that we don't really address very

1499
01:10:32,820 --> 01:10:29,290
often when I talk to him at the last

1500
01:10:34,110 --> 01:10:32,830
urbe conference in Vegas last year he

1501
01:10:36,810 --> 01:10:34,120
told me the reason he doesn't believe

1502
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:36,820
that UFOs are structured physical craft

1503
01:10:41,580 --> 01:10:39,760
is because if you talk to the witnesses

1504
01:10:44,550 --> 01:10:41,590
they all report psychic experiences

1505
01:10:46,110 --> 01:10:44,560
during the weeks before the sightings so

1506
01:10:49,190 --> 01:10:46,120
what would it be about this phenomena

1507
01:10:52,620 --> 01:10:49,200
that it allows people to have sort of

1508
01:10:54,090 --> 01:10:52,630
telepathic experiences or the phone

1509
01:10:56,670 --> 01:10:54,100
ringing off the hook without anyone

1510
01:10:58,860 --> 01:10:56,680
being there before the actual contact

1511
01:11:00,470 --> 01:10:58,870
happens I mean is there anything about

1512
01:11:02,330 --> 01:11:00,480
his point of view that you kind of can

1513
01:11:05,390 --> 01:11:02,340
connect with about the phenomena not

1514
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:05,400
being entirely a physical you know

1515
01:11:09,830 --> 01:11:08,130
substantive experience well shock in the

1516
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:09,840
past of course has been a frequent

1517
01:11:14,690 --> 01:11:13,290
presenter at our meetings my answer to

1518
01:11:16,130 --> 01:11:14,700
your question is that you were talking

1519
01:11:18,130 --> 01:11:16,140
about two-thirds of us are kind of

1520
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:18,140
interested in consciousness and

1521
01:11:22,460 --> 01:11:20,730
understanding consciousness at the same

1522
01:11:26,770 --> 01:11:22,470
time they understand UFOs would perhaps

1523
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:26,780
begin to answer that question well

1524
01:11:31,310 --> 01:11:29,250
because I agree Bob that there is

1525
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:31,320
certainly a consciousness component to

1526
01:11:35,900 --> 01:11:32,330
this

1527
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:35,910
having said that somebody today talked

1528
01:11:42,380 --> 01:11:38,610
about the imaginal world and imaginal is

1529
01:11:44,180 --> 01:11:42,390
very different from imaginary but the

1530
01:11:46,190 --> 01:11:44,190
point is that some of them certainly

1531
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:46,200
have physical reality and again that's

1532
01:11:51,740 --> 01:11:48,570
because we have multi spectral analysis

1533
01:11:55,460 --> 01:11:51,750
that reports them so we're looking I

1534
01:12:05,170 --> 01:11:55,470
think at a multiplicity of events and

1535
01:12:10,910 --> 01:12:05,180
phenomena and none of them simple sure I

1536
01:12:13,930 --> 01:12:10,920
say I mean as as was mentioned this

1537
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:13,940
afternoon in my talk this whole

1538
01:12:20,930 --> 01:12:17,010
similarity between the the paranormal it

1539
01:12:23,870 --> 01:12:20,940
excuse the expression and and the the

1540
01:12:27,470 --> 01:12:23,880
UFO technology to me what we're seeing

1541
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:27,480
is a whole new range of technologies a

1542
01:12:31,970 --> 01:12:29,730
whole new set of phenomena that are

1543
01:12:34,729 --> 01:12:31,980
current science as is taught in schools

1544
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:34,739
does not include that it seems to

1545
01:12:38,660 --> 01:12:36,890
involve higher dimensions and

1546
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:38,670
consciousness and a bunch of other

1547
01:12:43,670 --> 01:12:41,010
things that have been by and large left

1548
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:43,680
out of physics up until now and I think

1549
01:12:48,890 --> 01:12:46,890
that when these phenomena come up how

1550
01:12:51,140 --> 01:12:48,900
we're kind of having a thrust in our

1551
01:12:53,330 --> 01:12:51,150
face the fact that that these phenomena

1552
01:12:55,150 --> 01:12:53,340
are real if you really want to get high

1553
01:12:58,190 --> 01:12:55,160
performance and other types of things

1554
01:13:00,770 --> 01:12:58,200
you have to start looking at what our

1555
01:13:03,410 --> 01:13:00,780
science has not looked at yet I mean

1556
01:13:05,660 --> 01:13:03,420
there are some people in the of the New

1557
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:05,670
Age and the healing communities who

1558
01:13:10,220 --> 01:13:08,489
think is that quantum mechanics is the

1559
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:10,230
answer quantum physics is the answer to

1560
01:13:15,229 --> 01:13:12,570
consciousness if you really understand

1561
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:15,239
physics it really says very little about

1562
01:13:20,330 --> 01:13:17,250
consciousness and I think what we're

1563
01:13:22,669 --> 01:13:20,340
faced with now is it's time for science

1564
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:22,679
to go back and put consciousness into

1565
01:13:27,169 --> 01:13:25,290
science for real and really merge these

1566
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:27,179
two and I think that some of these new

1567
01:13:33,890 --> 01:13:29,489
phenomena and abilities may start to

1568
01:13:36,140 --> 01:13:33,900
come out when we do that there's a term

1569
01:13:39,109 --> 01:13:36,150
that I coined that I think George Knapp

1570
01:13:43,030 --> 01:13:39,119
wrote about zone cognitive sentient

1571
01:13:45,649 --> 01:13:43,040
phenomena and that is that we do have

1572
01:13:48,169 --> 01:13:45,659
phenomena that seems to more it seems to

1573
01:13:50,060 --> 01:13:48,179
know what we're thinking and where we're

1574
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:50,070
going to go some of you know we have the

1575
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:53,760
ranch in Utah that had phenomenal range

1576
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:58,560
of various phenomena and every time you

1577
01:14:04,010 --> 01:14:01,199
started to get close it would change and

1578
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:04,020
it would almost know what you were going

1579
01:14:08,419 --> 01:14:06,210
to do next how you were going to respond

1580
01:14:10,959 --> 01:14:08,429
to and say you like that try this and

1581
01:14:14,450 --> 01:14:10,969
you would see something different so

1582
01:14:17,620 --> 01:14:14,460
it's terribly terribly complex and it is

1583
01:14:20,270 --> 01:14:17,630
cognitive thank you

1584
01:14:23,689 --> 01:14:20,280
yeah I have a disease called

1585
01:14:26,870 --> 01:14:23,699
experimental science and what that means

1586
01:14:30,260 --> 01:14:26,880
is that whenever I hear claims of an

1587
01:14:32,959 --> 01:14:30,270
observation it gets immediately

1588
01:14:35,290 --> 01:14:32,969
converted from an observation into a

1589
01:14:37,790 --> 01:14:35,300
question a question into a hypothesis

1590
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:37,800
hypothesis into a possible experimental

1591
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:39,810
design and then I want to go out and do

1592
01:14:46,100 --> 01:14:42,090
the experiment to see what the outcomes

1593
01:14:50,359 --> 01:14:46,110
are and one of the claims that have that

1594
01:14:53,300 --> 01:14:50,369
has been observed which I've personally

1595
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:53,310
met people who make the claim is that

1596
01:14:58,129 --> 01:14:54,570
there are some people who believe that

1597
01:15:00,560 --> 01:14:58,139
they can quote call in a craft and I'm

1598
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:00,570
sure you're all aware of this none of

1599
01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:02,690
you have mentioned this phenomena

1600
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:06,239
overtly at least it or emphasized it and

1601
01:15:11,450 --> 01:15:08,130
yet if from an experimental point of

1602
01:15:13,780 --> 01:15:11,460
view it's eminently testable because

1603
01:15:17,450 --> 01:15:13,790
many different people make these claims

1604
01:15:19,550 --> 01:15:17,460
some of whom on the face of it seem

1605
01:15:22,250 --> 01:15:19,560
credible and I don't mean for example

1606
01:15:23,390 --> 01:15:22,260
like the the man in Las Vegas I'm sure

1607
01:15:27,730 --> 01:15:23,400
you saw that news report

1608
01:15:30,440 --> 01:15:27,740
a year or two ago who was some religious

1609
01:15:35,540 --> 01:15:30,450
obsessed individual and anyway the

1610
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:35,550
question is if has anyone done formal

1611
01:15:42,380 --> 01:15:40,290
research to actually see if you take X

1612
01:15:45,110 --> 01:15:42,390
number of people you know ten twenty

1613
01:15:48,440 --> 01:15:45,120
thirty who have a history of making

1614
01:15:51,140 --> 01:15:48,450
claims of videoing phenomena and

1615
01:15:54,170 --> 01:15:51,150
observing phenomena where they say look

1616
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:54,180
I can I can call them in and twenty

1617
01:15:57,880 --> 01:15:55,530
percent of the time or eighty percent of

1618
01:16:00,800 --> 01:15:57,890
the time a light will appear in the sky

1619
01:16:03,770 --> 01:16:00,810
has anyone ever done that formal

1620
01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:03,780
experiment to see whether is even one

1621
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:06,450
human being who can do this that's I

1622
01:16:11,690 --> 01:16:08,850
think the short answer is no would be a

1623
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:11,700
great experiment that said there's not

1624
01:16:18,590 --> 01:16:13,770
very many experiments that go on one of

1625
01:16:21,050 --> 01:16:18,600
the problems in the field has been just

1626
01:16:23,870 --> 01:16:21,060
a dearth of funding I mean you go out

1627
01:16:26,870 --> 01:16:23,880
and try to get recount qualified

1628
01:16:30,950 --> 01:16:26,880
research programs in UFO funded and it

1629
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:30,960
is very little money there for example

1630
01:16:34,580 --> 01:16:32,880
if you hire a forensic document examiner

1631
01:16:44,780 --> 01:16:34,590
you're paying them lawyers fees at 250

1632
01:16:47,570 --> 01:16:44,790
an hour well I could I don't think that

1633
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:47,580
the idea that somebody can go out and

1634
01:16:54,950 --> 01:16:49,890
call down spaceships is really at the

1635
01:16:58,220 --> 01:16:54,960
center of ufologists concerns I can

1636
01:17:00,260 --> 01:16:58,230
offer a couple of anecdotes about going

1637
01:17:03,220 --> 01:17:00,270
out with people who made those claims

1638
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:03,230
and with people who believed them and

1639
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:05,970
when Venus showed up they made some

1640
01:17:10,430 --> 01:17:08,130
really extraordinary claims about the

1641
01:17:14,780 --> 01:17:10,440
spaceship that had been called down I

1642
01:17:17,390 --> 01:17:14,790
just think that that is just really non

1643
01:17:19,670 --> 01:17:17,400
credible and really when there are so

1644
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:19,680
many other pressing investigate able

1645
01:17:25,070 --> 01:17:22,770
questions that really need not concern

1646
01:17:26,990 --> 01:17:25,080
us very much okay we I would like to

1647
01:17:28,940 --> 01:17:27,000
talk about one experiment that MUFON was

1648
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:28,950
involved with it was our abduction

1649
01:17:34,250 --> 01:17:31,290
monitoring project and this was funded

1650
01:17:35,590 --> 01:17:34,260
to the tune of $200,000

1651
01:17:37,820 --> 01:17:35,600
and it was run over a four-year period

1652
01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:37,830
and what we did is we designed a

1653
01:17:42,290 --> 01:17:39,840
basically a little black box of

1654
01:17:43,870 --> 01:17:42,300
electronics that monitored 15 different

1655
01:17:46,910 --> 01:17:43,880
parameters in the ambient environment

1656
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:46,920
and we recruited a pep tease volunteers

1657
01:17:50,810 --> 01:17:48,810
who were claiming ongoing experiences

1658
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:50,820
and we placed these devices in their

1659
01:17:55,490 --> 01:17:53,250
homes and these devices collected data

1660
01:17:58,010 --> 01:17:55,500
24 hours a day over a period of time

1661
01:18:00,640 --> 01:17:58,020
which we downloaded to a computer and at

1662
01:18:03,260 --> 01:18:00,650
the same time we asked the abductees to

1663
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:03,270
journal about any experiences they had

1664
01:18:07,490 --> 01:18:05,370
and the thought was to try to correlate

1665
01:18:09,710 --> 01:18:07,500
the experience with changes in their

1666
01:18:12,470 --> 01:18:09,720
environment now that data was collected

1667
01:18:14,810 --> 01:18:12,480
and sat around for a number of years and

1668
01:18:16,700 --> 01:18:14,820
nobody bothered to crunch it fortunately

1669
01:18:19,250 --> 01:18:16,710
this year were we have a professor from

1670
01:18:21,170 --> 01:18:19,260
San Jose State University who has the

1671
01:18:22,850 --> 01:18:21,180
data and he's crunching the numbers for

1672
01:18:25,010 --> 01:18:22,860
us and hopefully we'll have some report

1673
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:25,020
by her symposium in July thank you

1674
01:18:31,010 --> 01:18:28,770
that's a great example another question

1675
01:18:34,490 --> 01:18:31,020
over here the question may have been

1676
01:18:37,370 --> 01:18:34,500
answered but I'll try it anyway if we

1677
01:18:42,110 --> 01:18:37,380
are to start research at this point on

1678
01:18:44,030 --> 01:18:42,120
UFO what could be the objectives of such

1679
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:44,040
a research and we're talking about

1680
01:18:49,670 --> 01:18:46,770
getting more and more data and it seems

1681
01:18:51,410 --> 01:18:49,680
from the presentation we heard them from

1682
01:18:54,229 --> 01:18:51,420
all the literature's that we have enough

1683
01:18:57,440 --> 01:18:54,239
data to convince at least ourselves that

1684
01:18:59,450 --> 01:18:57,450
it's real so what's the next I mean we

1685
01:19:02,390 --> 01:18:59,460
blame the government for withholding

1686
01:19:05,890 --> 01:19:02,400
some data but how much would it help us

1687
01:19:10,340 --> 01:19:05,900
to get more data more radar data more

1688
01:19:19,970 --> 01:19:10,350
sightings and then then what what's the

1689
01:19:26,180 --> 01:19:23,510
I don't necessarily think it's the

1690
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:26,190
quantity of data J Allen Hynek was fond

1691
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:27,450
of saying we have an embarrassment of

1692
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:29,970
riches we have too much data it really

1693
01:19:35,450 --> 01:19:32,130
is the quality of data when somebody

1694
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:35,460
reports a UFO what actual measurements

1695
01:19:39,890 --> 01:19:37,650
were made of distance of size of

1696
01:19:41,540 --> 01:19:39,900
velocity and so on a lot of the reports

1697
01:19:44,390 --> 01:19:41,550
that we have in our files are poorly

1698
01:19:47,630 --> 01:19:44,400
collected data and so you know bad data

1699
01:19:49,340 --> 01:19:47,640
and bad data out so we are striving but

1700
01:19:51,470 --> 01:19:49,350
we are trying to change that we are

1701
01:19:53,300 --> 01:19:51,480
changing our investigative process to do

1702
01:20:04,130 --> 01:19:53,310
a more thorough job of quality

1703
01:20:06,170 --> 01:20:04,140
collection well I'd like to comment on

1704
01:20:07,700 --> 01:20:06,180
that basically you're asking a very

1705
01:20:11,300 --> 01:20:07,710
important question because you ask you

1706
01:20:12,860 --> 01:20:11,310
what our real goals and my opinion the

1707
01:20:15,290 --> 01:20:12,870
real goals that have scientific merit

1708
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:15,300
are the ones I had an earlier chart that

1709
01:20:19,580 --> 01:20:17,610
is where are they from and why are they

1710
01:20:20,620 --> 01:20:19,590
here how do they work where do they come

1711
01:20:23,900 --> 01:20:20,630
from

1712
01:20:26,050 --> 01:20:23,910
and what's their energy source if there

1713
01:20:28,610 --> 01:20:26,060
is some why are they abducting people

1714
01:20:31,460 --> 01:20:28,620
these are I think the interesting

1715
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:31,470
scientific questions and the answers to

1716
01:20:35,630 --> 01:20:33,810
those questions some of them perhaps may

1717
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:35,640
help our society some of them may just

1718
01:20:51,810 --> 01:20:47,550
well I thought the question you asked is

1719
01:20:53,940 --> 01:20:51,820
what is our objective and nobody said

1720
01:20:55,830 --> 01:20:53,950
that the satisfaction of that objective

1721
01:21:03,180 --> 01:20:55,840
would be achieved by collecting more

1722
01:21:05,550 --> 01:21:03,190
data yes let me just comment that will

1723
01:21:07,470 --> 01:21:05,560
probably wrap up in about five or ten or

1724
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:07,480
fifteen minutes let me see you showing

1725
01:21:11,430 --> 01:21:08,770
pants how many like you go on for

1726
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:11,440
another ten fifteen minutes okay how

1727
01:21:19,430 --> 01:21:14,050
many want to quit now okay we'll go out

1728
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:19,440
for another ten to fifteen minutes yes I

1729
01:21:25,110 --> 01:21:22,210
lived in Ann Arbor Michigan at the time

1730
01:21:29,330 --> 01:21:25,120
of the swamp gas

1731
01:21:33,660 --> 01:21:29,340
supposedly UFO landing that Hynek

1732
01:21:35,010 --> 01:21:33,670
reported on as swamp gas I subsequently

1733
01:21:37,620 --> 01:21:35,020
because I was interested in the

1734
01:21:40,430 --> 01:21:37,630
phenomena went to a UFO conference where

1735
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:40,440
a high-neck said that he had been

1736
01:21:47,460 --> 01:21:44,400
specifically ordered by the Air Force to

1737
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:47,470
call it something anything else make an

1738
01:21:52,710 --> 01:21:49,930
explanation for it and he called it

1739
01:21:56,130 --> 01:21:52,720
swamp gas which he then disavowed at

1740
01:21:59,100 --> 01:21:56,140
that conference so I guess I addressed

1741
01:22:07,980 --> 01:21:59,110
that to those of you who would say that

1742
01:22:10,230 --> 01:22:07,990
there is no deception going on of the

1743
01:22:12,270 --> 01:22:10,240
people on the panel here I was the one

1744
01:22:15,650 --> 01:22:12,280
who knew Alan Hynek the best so I'm

1745
01:22:19,890 --> 01:22:15,660
going to take that question I think that

1746
01:22:24,300 --> 01:22:19,900
Alan returned to that episode often and

1747
01:22:27,540 --> 01:22:24,310
he considered it a really bad mistake

1748
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:27,550
and he he was so obsessed with it that

1749
01:22:31,530 --> 01:22:29,410
although nobody else would bring it up

1750
01:22:34,530 --> 01:22:31,540
in conversation he would bring it up in

1751
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:34,540
conversation and I and I think the

1752
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:37,570
question of deception is I understand

1753
01:22:41,850 --> 01:22:39,610
what you said nobody's saying there's no

1754
01:22:44,130 --> 01:22:41,860
deception of course there's deception

1755
01:22:47,250 --> 01:22:44,140
the question is what does the deception

1756
01:22:50,100 --> 01:22:47,260
mean the deception is in lousy

1757
01:22:52,380 --> 01:22:50,110
explanations for puzzling UFO reports

1758
01:22:55,740 --> 01:22:52,390
that Project Blue Book trafficked in for

1759
01:22:57,570 --> 01:22:55,750
decades that doesn't mean that Project

1760
01:22:58,649 --> 01:22:57,580
Blue Book was covering up evidence for

1761
01:23:00,839 --> 01:22:58,659
spaceships

1762
01:23:03,540 --> 01:23:00,849
more likely means that project Bluebook

1763
01:23:05,370 --> 01:23:03,550
just wanted to get rid of the UFO

1764
01:23:07,379 --> 01:23:05,380
problem in fact in fact that's what the

1765
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:07,389
evidence is that it was a it was a

1766
01:23:12,140 --> 01:23:10,449
public relations disaster for the Air

1767
01:23:14,909 --> 01:23:12,150
Force and every time it thought that

1768
01:23:16,649 --> 01:23:14,919
UFOs are winding down the Air Force

1769
01:23:20,310 --> 01:23:16,659
didn't have to deal with UFOs anymore

1770
01:23:23,339 --> 01:23:20,320
UFOs landed in Armour Michigan and they

1771
01:23:25,259 --> 01:23:23,349
really wanted Hynek to drop that potato

1772
01:23:27,060 --> 01:23:25,269
in Allen to the end of his days

1773
01:23:29,939 --> 01:23:27,070
regretted that he had cooperated with

1774
01:23:32,159 --> 01:23:29,949
him on that thank you let me just follow

1775
01:23:33,959 --> 01:23:32,169
up because I totally agree with what

1776
01:23:36,689 --> 01:23:33,969
Jerry said and if you remember the

1777
01:23:39,359 --> 01:23:36,699
Condon report got the right answer the

1778
01:23:42,540 --> 01:23:39,369
Air Force just wanted it to go away and

1779
01:23:45,330 --> 01:23:42,550
so when they said not a threat very

1780
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:45,340
little chance of progress remember one

1781
01:23:49,140 --> 01:23:46,570
of the things that goes with this also

1782
01:23:50,969 --> 01:23:49,150
was resourcing so that if you've got

1783
01:23:52,589 --> 01:23:50,979
this as a mission you've got to handle

1784
01:23:57,020 --> 01:23:52,599
it somebody's got to pay the bills

1785
01:24:03,239 --> 01:24:00,390
thank you uh lack of funding is probably

1786
01:24:06,569 --> 01:24:03,249
a legitimate claim for lack of progress

1787
01:24:09,509 --> 01:24:06,579
in a lot of psiy areas anomalous areas

1788
01:24:12,330 --> 01:24:09,519
however one person who most generously

1789
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:12,340
funded UFO research was of course Robert

1790
01:24:17,879 --> 01:24:15,130
Bigelow he formed the National Institute

1791
01:24:20,029 --> 01:24:17,889
of Discovery Science which went on for

1792
01:24:22,199 --> 01:24:20,039
some number of years and in fact

1793
01:24:24,029 --> 01:24:22,209
investigated one particular phenomena

1794
01:24:29,549 --> 01:24:24,039
very thoroughly which was the black

1795
01:24:33,419 --> 01:24:29,559
triangles they've made a conclusion that

1796
01:24:35,580 --> 01:24:33,429
those seem to be our own military that

1797
01:24:37,679 --> 01:24:35,590
made those and later as I recall they

1798
01:24:39,540 --> 01:24:37,689
sort of withdrew from that after they

1799
01:24:41,580 --> 01:24:39,550
researched it a bit further but I don't

1800
01:24:44,609 --> 01:24:41,590
think anything came out of all the money

1801
01:24:46,679 --> 01:24:44,619
that Robert Bigelow put into that UFO

1802
01:24:50,580 --> 01:24:46,689
research any comments about why that

1803
01:24:53,759 --> 01:24:50,590
might be I guess since I worked with

1804
01:24:58,859 --> 01:24:53,769
knids and in fact I talked to Bob on

1805
01:25:01,439 --> 01:24:58,869
Sunday it's one of the things we've been

1806
01:25:03,689 --> 01:25:01,449
talking about here just you have a

1807
01:25:05,939 --> 01:25:03,699
multiplicity of phenomena and we went

1808
01:25:08,399 --> 01:25:05,949
into a wide range of things from

1809
01:25:09,830 --> 01:25:08,409
personal observations I mentioned

1810
01:25:12,590 --> 01:25:09,840
earlier the

1811
01:25:17,210 --> 01:25:12,600
in Utah and all kinds of phenomenon

1812
01:25:19,550 --> 01:25:17,220
going on including UFO phenomena did

1813
01:25:21,770 --> 01:25:19,560
fund some research now what happened

1814
01:25:24,650 --> 01:25:21,780
the reason it's closed down by the way

1815
01:25:26,330 --> 01:25:24,660
is that he went into took half a billion

1816
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:26,340
of his own money went into Bigelow

1817
01:25:30,410 --> 01:25:28,290
Aerospace and if you're not familiar

1818
01:25:32,810 --> 01:25:30,420
with it you actually have two of his

1819
01:25:35,750 --> 01:25:32,820
personal satellites that are circling

1820
01:25:47,650 --> 01:25:35,760
the earth right now and in ten they're

1821
01:25:55,310 --> 01:25:51,650
blow my hearing threshold okay actually

1822
01:25:57,860 --> 01:25:55,320
we did have just a quick recess you

1823
01:25:59,480 --> 01:25:57,870
might say and my wife Linda has been

1824
01:26:02,980 --> 01:25:59,490
taking your money and giving your badges

1825
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:02,990
all these she has a few announcements

1826
01:26:07,790 --> 01:26:05,850
ladies and gentlemen we will stay open

1827
01:26:09,230 --> 01:26:07,800
for about 15 minutes to sell books if

1828
01:26:11,420 --> 01:26:09,240
you want to take books up to your room

1829
01:26:13,730 --> 01:26:11,430
before you retire when you leave your

1830
01:26:15,770 --> 01:26:13,740
space would you please be sure that you

1831
01:26:17,500 --> 01:26:15,780
have all of your belongings I brought

1832
01:26:20,540 --> 01:26:17,510
one up here's just as a demonstration

1833
01:26:22,940 --> 01:26:20,550
number three we now have a list of

1834
01:26:24,740 --> 01:26:22,950
attendees at the registration desk you

1835
01:26:29,300 --> 01:26:24,750
can pick one of those up and I'd wish

1836
01:26:31,730 --> 01:26:29,310
you sweet dreams thank you okay back to

1837
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:31,740
questions yes here's one from somebody

1838
01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:34,050
who hasn't spoken yet good pass that

1839
01:26:41,420 --> 01:26:39,330
down for any of you who can answer this

1840
01:26:43,790 --> 01:26:41,430
who think that there might be really

1841
01:26:45,740 --> 01:26:43,800
teas if there are noisy teas out there

1842
01:26:47,980 --> 01:26:45,750
why don't they talk to us directly and

1843
01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:47,990
so that we can get rid of this whole

1844
01:27:02,140 --> 01:26:59,380
well you want me to start okay I'll

1845
01:27:05,470 --> 01:27:02,150
begin on that one my opinion is that

1846
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:05,480
that actually the Star Trek scenario is

1847
01:27:10,930 --> 01:27:09,170
more accurate than you'd imagine that is

1848
01:27:13,420 --> 01:27:10,940
don't interfere with developing

1849
01:27:15,850 --> 01:27:13,430
civilizations as a reasonable kind of

1850
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:15,860
assumption to make the other aspect of

1851
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:20,210
in my opinion is that there there is

1852
01:27:26,050 --> 01:27:24,050
some evidence not always very powerful

1853
01:27:27,970 --> 01:27:26,060
that there have been interactions with

1854
01:27:29,650 --> 01:27:27,980
some parts of our government so in

1855
01:27:32,830 --> 01:27:29,660
effect they have had those conversations

1856
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:32,840
and in also you have to note that

1857
01:27:37,090 --> 01:27:35,210
whenever they come down and abducts

1858
01:27:38,440 --> 01:27:37,100
somebody or have a conversation with

1859
01:27:40,150 --> 01:27:38,450
somebody they're interacting with a

1860
01:27:41,980 --> 01:27:40,160
human race so it's just a question of

1861
01:27:44,070 --> 01:27:41,990
how you define that interaction if

1862
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:44,080
you're looking for it in the form of a

1863
01:27:54,190 --> 01:27:46,130
presidential conversation

1864
01:28:02,070 --> 01:27:54,200
the answer is apparently not often okay

1865
01:28:07,810 --> 01:28:06,010
thank you I'm not a scientist but I grew

1866
01:28:09,670 --> 01:28:07,820
up with science fiction and it never

1867
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:09,680
occurred to me that all the wondrous

1868
01:28:14,350 --> 01:28:11,120
things that I read that weren't possible

1869
01:28:17,229 --> 01:28:14,360
and didn't exist my question is why us

1870
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:17,239
if there are so many worlds and so many

1871
01:28:23,620 --> 01:28:19,370
civilizations what makes us so

1872
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:23,630
fascinating well this is a really

1873
01:28:30,250 --> 01:28:25,850
effective question which any one of you

1874
01:28:33,490 --> 01:28:30,260
when I do that I just wanted a comment

1875
01:28:35,740 --> 01:28:33,500
that if we look at the history of UFOs

1876
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:35,750
and all the different reports of these

1877
01:28:40,780 --> 01:28:37,850
so-called beings coming down and being

1878
01:28:43,630 --> 01:28:40,790
interested in us it seems to be overly

1879
01:28:46,870 --> 01:28:43,640
excessive interest we just got a report

1880
01:28:48,100 --> 01:28:46,880
for example not too long ago of entities

1881
01:28:50,170 --> 01:28:48,110
being sane down in North Carolina

1882
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:50,180
picking up beer bottles off the ground

1883
01:28:54,430 --> 01:28:52,610
so the question is you know they've been

1884
01:28:55,780 --> 01:28:54,440
picking up beer bottles for 60 years why

1885
01:28:57,580 --> 01:28:55,790
are they still doing it to me it there

1886
01:29:01,390 --> 01:28:57,590
seems to be more of a display at more of

1887
01:29:03,310 --> 01:29:01,400
a show rather than an overt interest so

1888
01:29:05,820 --> 01:29:03,320
I would have to say that there's more to

1889
01:29:08,890 --> 01:29:05,830
the phenomenon just interesting yes I

1890
01:29:11,380 --> 01:29:08,900
remember one particular incident in 1954

1891
01:29:13,090 --> 01:29:11,390
in France this this guy was on the field

1892
01:29:15,310 --> 01:29:13,100
and this craft sat down and the guy got

1893
01:29:17,979 --> 01:29:15,320
on he had a sort of a leather jacket on

1894
01:29:19,780 --> 01:29:17,989
and he went up to the Frenchman he said

1895
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:19,790
Keller a Teel which means what time is

1896
01:29:25,979 --> 01:29:22,010
it and the guy looked at his watch told

1897
01:29:29,650 --> 01:29:25,989
him he got back into craft it's a car I

1898
01:29:32,710 --> 01:29:29,660
think it's pretty well understood that

1899
01:29:33,570 --> 01:29:32,720
they visit each other too that we're not

1900
01:29:36,370 --> 01:29:33,580
exclusive

1901
01:29:40,690 --> 01:29:36,380
so they visit each other and exchange

1902
01:29:43,930 --> 01:29:40,700
information and and culture and so on

1903
01:29:48,670 --> 01:29:43,940
and now I guess I don't know for the for

1904
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:48,680
the new New Jamaica the hot place to go

1905
01:29:53,229 --> 01:29:51,290
for for holidays or whatever it is I'm a

1906
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:53,239
little out of date in these things well

1907
01:29:58,540 --> 01:29:55,489
not only are we not exclusive there's no

1908
01:30:01,900 --> 01:29:58,550
indication that their communication is

1909
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:01,910
exclusively with us I mean to be going

1910
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:04,010
on everywhere right another question

1911
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:07,610
here I grew up on a cattle ranch and the

1912
01:30:12,259 --> 01:30:09,170
rancher really doesn't interact with the

1913
01:30:15,209 --> 01:30:12,269
cows on the cows level

1914
01:30:16,259 --> 01:30:15,219
and and I I don't understand why we

1915
01:30:18,270 --> 01:30:16,269
automatically assume these are

1916
01:30:20,910 --> 01:30:18,280
extraterrestrials the rancher lives on

1917
01:30:22,709 --> 01:30:20,920
this planet with his cattle and there's

1918
01:30:25,379 --> 01:30:22,719
an awful lot of ocean on this planet

1919
01:30:26,399 --> 01:30:25,389
there's ice caps so why do we

1920
01:30:30,359 --> 01:30:26,409
automatically assume they're

1921
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:30,369
extraterrestrials well actually I don't

1922
01:30:34,229 --> 01:30:32,530
assume that I just don't know where they

1923
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:34,239
come from and I don't know how they get

1924
01:30:43,859 --> 01:30:40,530
here but the short answer is we don't I

1925
01:30:45,540 --> 01:30:43,869
do not assume that it's necessarily eg

1926
01:30:49,500 --> 01:30:45,550
that was one of the bullets on my slide

1927
01:30:53,270 --> 01:30:49,510
is a circle fusion you know if you know

1928
01:30:59,040 --> 01:30:53,280
if UFOs there for et not necessarily

1929
01:31:00,689 --> 01:30:59,050
anybody else I would put the idea that

1930
01:31:03,330 --> 01:31:00,699
there are that there are terrestrial

1931
01:31:06,029 --> 01:31:03,340
origin and a very low level of

1932
01:31:07,859 --> 01:31:06,039
probability if that were the case it

1933
01:31:10,350 --> 01:31:07,869
would be we would have massive evidence

1934
01:31:11,609 --> 01:31:10,360
of their presence archaeological

1935
01:31:13,279 --> 01:31:11,619
evidence other kinds of physical

1936
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:13,289
evidence evidence of their technology

1937
01:31:18,839 --> 01:31:16,210
evidence of their their cities and

1938
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:18,849
social order it's just incredibly tall

1939
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:21,730
order to believe that a civilization

1940
01:31:24,209 --> 01:31:23,530
like that could live concealed in our

1941
01:31:27,509 --> 01:31:24,219
midst

1942
01:31:29,910 --> 01:31:27,519
it's really to me when I those kinds of

1943
01:31:32,189 --> 01:31:29,920
speculations are have been revived

1944
01:31:34,830 --> 01:31:32,199
recently and I sort of put it in the

1945
01:31:36,959 --> 01:31:34,840
category of atlantis and lemuria

1946
01:31:41,430 --> 01:31:36,969
you know those kinds of lost continent

1947
01:31:43,189 --> 01:31:41,440
you know lore and traditions and just

1948
01:31:45,209 --> 01:31:43,199
historically not true

1949
01:31:47,459 --> 01:31:45,219
jari although i completely agree with

1950
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:47,469
you on that point it still doesn't

1951
01:31:52,049 --> 01:31:49,570
completely explain the undersea objects

1952
01:31:54,750 --> 01:31:52,059
that are also reported which might be

1953
01:31:56,189 --> 01:31:54,760
going to some other location well we

1954
01:31:58,770 --> 01:31:56,199
don't have to conclude they live there

1955
01:32:04,430 --> 01:31:58,780
you know I mean they're just you know

1956
01:32:09,209 --> 01:32:07,470
sort of agree with John Alexander's

1957
01:32:13,759 --> 01:32:09,219
point of view on government involvement

1958
01:32:17,339 --> 01:32:13,769
except that I distinctly remember in the

1959
01:32:20,350 --> 01:32:17,349
mid-70s and through the early 80s when I

1960
01:32:23,650 --> 01:32:20,360
was perusing

1961
01:32:27,640 --> 01:32:23,660
the UFO cupping service that was

1962
01:32:30,430 --> 01:32:27,650
mentioned and they were repeated numbers

1963
01:32:35,830 --> 01:32:30,440
of cases and written up in local papers

1964
01:32:38,860 --> 01:32:35,840
in this country and where the witnesses

1965
01:32:41,950 --> 01:32:38,870
reported military jets coming over right

1966
01:32:44,770 --> 01:32:41,960
after the UFO was was seen and that was

1967
01:32:47,230 --> 01:32:44,780
that was on numerous occasions and it

1968
01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:47,240
appeared to me at the time that it was

1969
01:32:54,700 --> 01:32:49,120
evidence that there was some kind of

1970
01:32:56,590 --> 01:32:54,710
covert military UFO investigation going

1971
01:32:59,980 --> 01:32:56,600
on where they had a team that would go

1972
01:33:03,100 --> 01:32:59,990
out and try to intercept them and

1973
01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:03,110
presumably they were also ground forces

1974
01:33:07,630 --> 01:33:05,090
and garden teams that would go out and

1975
01:33:10,090 --> 01:33:07,640
look for ground traces but anyway the

1976
01:33:11,590 --> 01:33:10,100
reports talked about military jets all

1977
01:33:15,220 --> 01:33:11,600
the time look to me like that was

1978
01:33:16,570 --> 01:33:15,230
evidence of a military project so that

1979
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:16,580
may be the tip of an iceberg

1980
01:33:26,110 --> 01:33:21,290
I don't know address by the way Dale has

1981
01:33:27,940 --> 01:33:26,120
been trying to get in forever one of the

1982
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:27,950
things we did when we were looking at

1983
01:33:31,450 --> 01:33:30,170
this there were certain messages that

1984
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:31,460
were in the traffic we started looking

1985
01:33:36,460 --> 01:33:33,890
for the pattern who gets information how

1986
01:33:38,170 --> 01:33:36,470
does information flow those messages

1987
01:33:41,620 --> 01:33:38,180
that come in you look at all of the

1988
01:33:43,890 --> 01:33:41,630
addresses that sort of thing in order to

1989
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:43,900
do the kind of thing you're suggesting

1990
01:33:50,530 --> 01:33:47,930
means a very broad knowledge I mean

1991
01:33:52,480 --> 01:33:50,540
every base would have to have you know

1992
01:33:54,430 --> 01:33:52,490
contingency plans this would be out in

1993
01:33:57,450 --> 01:33:54,440
the open you just find no evidence for

1994
01:34:01,360 --> 01:33:59,680
if you don't think the government can

1995
01:34:03,850 --> 01:34:01,370
cover things up just look back at the

1996
01:34:06,280 --> 01:34:03,860
history of the development of the

1997
01:34:08,380 --> 01:34:06,290
nuclear weapon to know that the

1998
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:08,390
Manhattan Project was able to conceal a

1999
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:10,610
lot of things from a lot of people they

2000
01:34:14,350 --> 01:34:13,010
built an entire city in Tennessee under

2001
01:34:16,300 --> 01:34:14,360
the nose of the very governor of the

2002
01:34:18,010 --> 01:34:16,310
state so when people say there's no

2003
01:34:22,390 --> 01:34:18,020
cover-up there's no plausibility of

2004
01:34:25,430 --> 01:34:22,400
cover-up I just say that's bull coming

2005
01:34:28,010 --> 01:34:25,440
from Los Alamos I've got to disagree

2006
01:34:31,070 --> 01:34:28,020
that was pretty well known Soviets broke

2007
01:34:34,850 --> 01:34:31,080
that one real fast and the information

2008
01:34:37,189 --> 01:34:34,860
did become known as this of all things

2009
01:34:39,380 --> 01:34:37,199
we did bring up with teller and private

2010
01:34:40,700 --> 01:34:39,390
conversation as you said when that went

2011
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:40,710
off you know there were a thousand

2012
01:34:45,979 --> 01:34:42,330
people who knew the rest of the world

2013
01:34:48,170 --> 01:34:45,989
didn't a very short period of time it

2014
01:34:50,660 --> 01:34:48,180
became known to the Soviets but not

2015
01:34:51,950 --> 01:34:50,670
necessarily to the public right well but

2016
01:34:53,660 --> 01:34:51,960
that wasn't like I said that was for a

2017
01:34:56,479 --> 01:34:53,670
very short period of time

2018
01:35:01,130 --> 01:34:56,489
yeah give me another question and it did

2019
01:35:03,350 --> 01:35:01,140
leak yes I remember back to the when the

2020
01:35:05,500 --> 01:35:03,360
astronauts returned from the moon

2021
01:35:07,729 --> 01:35:05,510
they were quarantined for about a month

2022
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:07,739
because of the fear that might be a

2023
01:35:12,650 --> 01:35:09,810
microbe they would bring back like the

2024
01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:12,660
Andromeda Strain so I'm wondering was

2025
01:35:18,350 --> 01:35:15,690
the apparent the alleged stories about

2026
01:35:22,340 --> 01:35:18,360
et or extraterrestrials walking around

2027
01:35:24,350 --> 01:35:22,350
on earth or visiting us and interacting

2028
01:35:27,830 --> 01:35:24,360
with people wouldn't there be a concern

2029
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:27,840
about viruses on their part their immune

2030
01:35:35,150 --> 01:35:30,330
system certainly is not adaptable to the

2031
01:35:37,070 --> 01:35:35,160
Earth's habitat yeah I'd say that's an

2032
01:35:39,410 --> 01:35:37,080
excellent point but you brought up

2033
01:35:42,890 --> 01:35:39,420
something that I use in arguments I know

2034
01:35:44,450 --> 01:35:42,900
a number of the lunar astronauts and I

2035
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:44,460
have asked them point blank

2036
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:47,130
now you understand Apollo was about a

2037
01:35:52,810 --> 01:35:50,130
lot more than going to the moon I mean

2038
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:52,820
you know we had four percent of our GD

2039
01:35:59,120 --> 01:35:56,610
GDP involved in developing that that was

2040
01:36:02,660 --> 01:35:59,130
about putting the nation ahead that was

2041
01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:02,670
a huge huge effort so I asked them did

2042
01:36:06,650 --> 01:36:05,130
anybody ever tell you by the way if you

2043
01:36:09,140 --> 01:36:06,660
get up there and you bump into somebody

2044
01:36:12,430 --> 01:36:09,150
here's what you say and you would think

2045
01:36:15,500 --> 01:36:12,440
that if we had any inkling whatsoever

2046
01:36:18,380 --> 01:36:15,510
that you might encounter somebody you

2047
01:36:21,170 --> 01:36:18,390
would have contingency plans I do know

2048
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:21,180
the lawyers from NASA and from that era

2049
01:36:27,170 --> 01:36:24,449
the contingency plans by the way was if

2050
01:36:31,939 --> 01:36:27,180
we ever have an encounter we will make

2051
01:36:34,070 --> 01:36:31,949
public knowledge immediately okay you

2052
01:36:37,669 --> 01:36:34,080
have questions from a new person here I

2053
01:36:38,570 --> 01:36:37,679
was wondering how the the factor of UFO

2054
01:36:40,340 --> 01:36:38,580
and 18

2055
01:36:42,350 --> 01:36:40,350
in the mythology of ancient cultures

2056
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:42,360
affects the consciousness around all of

2057
01:36:51,830 --> 01:36:46,650
this Jerome you want to come into that

2058
01:36:56,630 --> 01:36:51,840
one well the idea that extraterrestrials

2059
01:36:59,720 --> 01:36:56,640
were responsible for creating you know

2060
01:37:01,940 --> 01:36:59,730
pyramids and then and and had a presence

2061
01:37:05,330 --> 01:37:01,950
in ancient history really I think was

2062
01:37:09,110 --> 01:37:05,340
invented by Charles fort and the theme

2063
01:37:11,120 --> 01:37:09,120
was picked up in some of the early

2064
01:37:13,370 --> 01:37:11,130
fringe saucer literature like George

2065
01:37:15,770 --> 01:37:13,380
hunt Williamson Brinsley the poet trench

2066
01:37:18,020 --> 01:37:15,780
Desmond Leslie people like this I know a

2067
01:37:19,970 --> 01:37:18,030
lot about this subject because in one of

2068
01:37:23,930 --> 01:37:19,980
the volumes of my UFO encyclopedia I

2069
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:23,940
have a long entry on the evolution of

2070
01:37:28,550 --> 01:37:26,010
the the folklore about ancient

2071
01:37:30,980 --> 01:37:28,560
astronauts it was Erich erich von

2072
01:37:33,650 --> 01:37:30,990
Daniken of course it was not a ufologist

2073
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:33,660
who really popularized the concept by

2074
01:37:39,590 --> 01:37:35,970
essentially stealing a lot of ideas from

2075
01:37:42,740 --> 01:37:39,600
fringe saucer books from the 50s I place

2076
01:37:45,410 --> 01:37:42,750
no credibility in this it's just as you

2077
01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:45,420
say you know our modern mythology and it

2078
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:48,330
really isn't central to the concerns of

2079
01:37:57,950 --> 01:37:55,290
you know the more sober ufologists this

2080
01:38:00,320 --> 01:37:57,960
is directed to to John there was a

2081
01:38:02,570 --> 01:38:00,330
report in Jane's Defence weekly about

2082
01:38:04,970 --> 01:38:02,580
ten years ago on special access programs

2083
01:38:06,410 --> 01:38:04,980
and even a United States Senate report

2084
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:06,420
that the Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

2085
01:38:12,290 --> 01:38:10,290
chaired again in the mid 90s on special

2086
01:38:13,610 --> 01:38:12,300
access programs and at that time it was

2087
01:38:15,830 --> 01:38:13,620
claimed there were about 150 special

2088
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:15,840
access programs and the deepest black

2089
01:38:20,630 --> 01:38:18,690
ones are called waived unacknowledged

2090
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:20,640
waived special access programs meaning

2091
01:38:24,620 --> 01:38:22,770
that they don't have to report to the

2092
01:38:27,050 --> 01:38:24,630
the Appropriations Committee or the

2093
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:27,060
authorization committees and I'm just

2094
01:38:31,730 --> 01:38:29,730
wondering what you think about that that

2095
01:38:33,830 --> 01:38:31,740
place for some program having to do with

2096
01:38:35,690 --> 01:38:33,840
UFOs to reside because I don't think you

2097
01:38:37,490 --> 01:38:35,700
can deny that such programs exist since

2098
01:38:39,980 --> 01:38:37,500
then it's been documented even in US

2099
01:38:41,540 --> 01:38:39,990
Senate report well there are there are

2100
01:38:45,710 --> 01:38:41,550
certainly there's a whole black world

2101
01:38:47,510 --> 01:38:45,720
that is grossly misunderstood but when

2102
01:38:49,590 --> 01:38:47,520
you're in the black world you compete in

2103
01:38:52,350 --> 01:38:49,600
the black world and there are

2104
01:38:55,320 --> 01:38:52,360
or it you have one to end priority list

2105
01:38:58,710 --> 01:38:55,330
and you've got people inside the sub

2106
01:39:00,810 --> 01:38:58,720
it's true that that it doesn't get the

2107
01:39:03,900 --> 01:39:00,820
same level of scrutiny that you would

2108
01:39:06,980 --> 01:39:03,910
for open source programs but there is

2109
01:39:09,930 --> 01:39:06,990
scrutiny and it and you have competition

2110
01:39:11,490 --> 01:39:09,940
between project managers and you're

2111
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:11,500
familiar with you know project

2112
01:39:15,900 --> 01:39:13,570
management within organizations who has

2113
01:39:18,870 --> 01:39:15,910
to do and they get to see each other and

2114
01:39:20,340 --> 01:39:18,880
they get in and fight firstly for it so

2115
01:39:23,540 --> 01:39:20,350
the amount of money that would be

2116
01:39:28,260 --> 01:39:23,550
necessary to have huge black programs I

2117
01:39:30,540 --> 01:39:28,270
don't see that that would be that would

2118
01:39:33,570 --> 01:39:30,550
not you know that would fall outside the

2119
01:39:36,390 --> 01:39:33,580
spectrum low level easy to do when you

2120
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:36,400
get in tens of tens of K one days of K

2121
01:39:41,010 --> 01:39:39,010
even Millions you can probably slop that

2122
01:39:44,100 --> 01:39:41,020
through when you started getting into

2123
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:44,110
bigger everybody in the world and

2124
01:39:49,260 --> 01:39:46,810
particularly now for the last and

2125
01:39:51,660 --> 01:39:49,270
probably the last decade with the

2126
01:39:54,450 --> 01:39:51,670
declining R&D budget look at the P six

2127
01:39:58,590 --> 01:39:54,460
account it's been coming down steadily

2128
01:40:01,050 --> 01:39:58,600
and since one has been used as a

2129
01:40:07,500 --> 01:40:01,060
primarily as a bill payer to pay for the

2130
01:40:08,820 --> 01:40:07,510
war it's asking a simple question do you

2131
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:08,830
deny there aren't waived and

2132
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:10,330
acknowledged special access programs

2133
01:40:14,460 --> 01:40:12,130
because they're referenced in senator

2134
01:40:16,350 --> 01:40:14,470
Moynihan's report and that they may not

2135
01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:16,360
be having anything to do with UFOs I

2136
01:40:19,590 --> 01:40:17,770
mean it certainly can be involved in

2137
01:40:21,900 --> 01:40:19,600
weapons systems and things like that but

2138
01:40:24,870 --> 01:40:21,910
that level of secrecy does exist there

2139
01:40:27,780 --> 01:40:24,880
are levels of secrecy in my view there

2140
01:40:30,060 --> 01:40:27,790
are none that don't have oversight at

2141
01:40:32,700 --> 01:40:30,070
some level these things come together

2142
01:40:35,090 --> 01:40:32,710
and as big if you look at though you've

2143
01:40:36,780 --> 01:40:35,100
got a this I think is one of the biggest

2144
01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:36,790
misunderstandings is how the budget

2145
01:40:42,450 --> 01:40:40,330
process works inside the government and

2146
01:40:44,970 --> 01:40:42,460
side DoD and we can sit down and go

2147
01:40:50,910 --> 01:40:44,980
through this because I've fought many of

2148
01:40:53,340 --> 01:40:50,920
these battles it there's none of it at

2149
01:40:56,370 --> 01:40:53,350
any significant levels understand we're

2150
01:40:58,290 --> 01:40:56,380
talking pentagon levels of significantly

2151
01:41:01,389 --> 01:40:58,300
but Mike Bordin our lunch money but I

2152
01:41:03,369 --> 01:41:01,399
would respectfully point out that

2153
01:41:06,009 --> 01:41:03,379
John and I disagree on this one point

2154
01:41:08,290 --> 01:41:06,019
that is I'm totally satisfied that the

2155
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:08,300
question documents that I have show that

2156
01:41:12,989 --> 01:41:10,010
special access programs like that do

2157
01:41:15,819 --> 01:41:12,999
exist and have been very effective and

2158
01:41:18,100 --> 01:41:15,829
they've been kept sufficiently secret so

2159
01:41:21,100 --> 01:41:18,110
that the people who have the kind of

2160
01:41:23,169 --> 01:41:21,110
approval that you claim would be present

2161
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:23,179
just don't know about them and they're

2162
01:41:29,409 --> 01:41:26,090
taken off off line so that would be my

2163
01:41:32,049 --> 01:41:29,419
position by the way unfortunately the

2164
01:41:33,310 --> 01:41:32,059
reason a lot of them are kept as black

2165
01:41:34,779 --> 01:41:33,320
as their ours because they couldn't

2166
01:41:38,049 --> 01:41:34,789
stand the light of day they're just not

2167
01:41:40,929 --> 01:41:38,059
technically very good that's right okay

2168
01:41:43,270 --> 01:41:40,939
let's see actually I'd like to make a

2169
01:41:46,330 --> 01:41:43,280
comment myself in connection with Jerry

2170
01:41:48,729 --> 01:41:46,340
Clark's comment this morning because it

2171
01:41:50,350 --> 01:41:48,739
turns out as you remember he talked

2172
01:41:53,199 --> 01:41:50,360
about fairies and then he talked about a

2173
01:41:56,830 --> 01:41:53,209
number of fascinating reports in 1897

2174
01:41:59,469 --> 01:41:56,840
that had a great deal of correlation and

2175
01:42:02,259 --> 01:41:59,479
what he didn't know is that one of the

2176
01:42:05,649 --> 01:42:02,269
documents that I have is signed by

2177
01:42:09,219 --> 01:42:05,659
George Marshall it's classified secret

2178
01:42:13,330 --> 01:42:09,229
as I recall in 1942 and says we should

2179
01:42:15,909 --> 01:42:13,340
start a project to study aerial

2180
01:42:19,389 --> 01:42:15,919
phenomena that are unidentified going

2181
01:42:20,709 --> 01:42:19,399
back to 1897 and that's in the memo at

2182
01:42:23,500 --> 01:42:20,719
the bottom the last thing in the middle

2183
01:42:25,649 --> 01:42:23,510
so I'll send you a copy of that I think

2184
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:25,659
you need to have it in your archives

2185
01:42:30,879 --> 01:42:29,570
okay more questions actually Nick we're

2186
01:42:32,859 --> 01:42:30,889
coming to the point probably in the next

2187
01:42:44,170 --> 01:42:32,869
five minutes we'll we'll wrap this up so

2188
01:42:49,870 --> 01:42:48,730
you must be good good good I must be

2189
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:49,880
learning more because I have more and

2190
01:42:54,670 --> 01:42:52,370
more questions I think I've gone from a

2191
01:43:01,000 --> 01:42:54,680
skeptic to a believer to a debunker all

2192
01:43:05,530 --> 01:43:01,010
in one day so my question is with all

2193
01:43:06,750 --> 01:43:05,540
these crashes how is it possible that

2194
01:43:09,340 --> 01:43:06,760
there's not a piece of spacecraft

2195
01:43:11,410 --> 01:43:09,350
they're not even if the government has

2196
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:11,420
this incredible secrecy thing going on

2197
01:43:18,370 --> 01:43:15,050
it's not only this country where are all

2198
01:43:20,470 --> 01:43:18,380
of these so that's one question the

2199
01:43:22,780 --> 01:43:20,480
second question is is it a time travel

2200
01:43:24,550 --> 01:43:22,790
thing are they are they located not in

2201
01:43:27,610 --> 01:43:24,560
another planet but in another dimension

2202
01:43:33,250 --> 01:43:27,620
such that okay we heard about the

2203
01:43:34,750 --> 01:43:33,260
time-space continuum sort of thing when

2204
01:43:38,320 --> 01:43:34,760
they arrived maybe they miscalculated

2205
01:43:40,240 --> 01:43:38,330
and that's why they crashed what is the

2206
01:43:42,280 --> 01:43:40,250
possibility that they are actually in

2207
01:43:49,090 --> 01:43:42,290
another plane of existence not another

2208
01:43:51,610 --> 01:43:49,100
planet of existence okay

2209
01:43:54,790 --> 01:43:51,620
take those huh well I can't take all of

2210
01:43:57,220 --> 01:43:54,800
them on but I'll address one of them not

2211
01:44:00,160 --> 01:43:57,230
guess it was last week there was a UFO

2212
01:44:03,010 --> 01:44:00,170
that crashed over Vietnam and fragments

2213
01:44:05,260 --> 01:44:03,020
were recovered and the question is how

2214
01:44:06,460 --> 01:44:05,270
do we get a hold of those so you know

2215
01:44:08,440 --> 01:44:06,470
those are the things we're looking at so

2216
01:44:11,470 --> 01:44:08,450
I don't think it's just this country now

2217
01:44:13,690 --> 01:44:11,480
we don't know if that's a real UFO or

2218
01:44:16,060 --> 01:44:13,700
some remotely piloted drone or some

2219
01:44:18,580 --> 01:44:16,070
military craft of our I want to origin

2220
01:44:23,260 --> 01:44:18,590
but I would say that they do happen in

2221
01:44:26,230 --> 01:44:23,270
other countries things like the United

2222
01:44:28,450 --> 01:44:26,240
States and also there's a pretty good

2223
01:44:30,420 --> 01:44:28,460
job of picking up crashes in Canada and

2224
01:44:34,450 --> 01:44:30,430
Mexico and anywhere that's severely

2225
01:44:36,580 --> 01:44:34,460
close at all we had one in Manitoba and

2226
01:44:40,150 --> 01:44:36,590
by the time our investigators got out

2227
01:44:42,430 --> 01:44:40,160
there I say ceremi was their chief

2228
01:44:45,310 --> 01:44:42,440
investigators started up and one of your

2229
01:44:50,649 --> 01:44:45,320
guys pointed a gun at him and said don't

2230
01:44:53,979 --> 01:44:50,659
you come too close boy and so

2231
01:44:56,469 --> 01:44:53,989
they go through the processes and

2232
01:44:59,199 --> 01:44:56,479
finally somebody in Ottawa said well let

2233
01:45:01,719 --> 01:44:59,209
them have it and the same kind of thing

2234
01:45:04,629 --> 01:45:01,729
as has happened in Mexico so quite a

2235
01:45:08,890 --> 01:45:04,639
quite a few of these crashes have wound

2236
01:45:11,890 --> 01:45:08,900
up wherever they wind up and I don't

2237
01:45:14,350 --> 01:45:11,900
know where that is exactly my son's book

2238
01:45:16,779 --> 01:45:14,360
of course magic eyes only identifies 75

2239
01:45:19,359 --> 01:45:16,789
different crash crashes at various

2240
01:45:21,189 --> 01:45:19,369
levels of confidence but things do fall

2241
01:45:23,529 --> 01:45:21,199
down now I'll give you a specific

2242
01:45:27,129 --> 01:45:23,539
example is one in New Mexico that's

2243
01:45:30,779 --> 01:45:27,139
quoted as a UFO crash that was half blue

2244
01:45:33,879 --> 01:45:30,789
which was the predecessor to the f-117

2245
01:45:36,580 --> 01:45:33,889
and if people want to say it was a UFO

2246
01:45:39,879 --> 01:45:36,590
everybody was really happy to say you

2247
01:45:42,429 --> 01:45:39,889
know it was a UFO so right now there's a

2248
01:45:44,529 --> 01:45:42,439
lot of stuff flying around including the

2249
01:45:48,279 --> 01:45:44,539
space things and they tend to fall down

2250
01:45:51,759 --> 01:45:48,289
sometimes what bothers me with these the

2251
01:45:53,859 --> 01:45:51,769
multiplicity supposedly of crashes is we

2252
01:45:56,259 --> 01:45:53,869
got these highly advanced technologies

2253
01:45:59,859 --> 01:45:56,269
income a gazillion miles and then they

2254
01:46:02,469 --> 01:45:59,869
bump into each other that's just

2255
01:46:05,429 --> 01:46:02,479
something doesn't make sense to me okay

2256
01:46:09,189 --> 01:46:05,439
I've been talk to it one more question

2257
01:46:12,489 --> 01:46:09,199
on the MJ documents there is an energy

2258
01:46:15,459 --> 01:46:12,499
document that I added Einstein and

2259
01:46:18,370 --> 01:46:15,469
Oppenheimer put out 1947 it's on the

2260
01:46:20,949 --> 01:46:18,380
website on your website

2261
01:46:24,909 --> 01:46:20,959
Einstein and Oppenheimer's supposedly

2262
01:46:27,969 --> 01:46:24,919
wrote a letter to Truman and it is on

2263
01:46:30,509 --> 01:46:27,979
the website in 1947 in June before the

2264
01:46:32,770 --> 01:46:30,519
Roswell crash using the word

2265
01:46:34,839 --> 01:46:32,780
extraterrestrial biological entity which

2266
01:46:36,339 --> 01:46:34,849
really confuses me as a researcher

2267
01:46:38,589 --> 01:46:36,349
because I thought that came out of the

2268
01:46:41,919 --> 01:46:38,599
Roswell crash and both of them were very

2269
01:46:46,120 --> 01:46:41,929
concerned because they called these

2270
01:46:48,669 --> 01:46:46,130
visitors celestial celestial cultures

2271
01:46:50,709 --> 01:46:48,679
and they said we need to develop

2272
01:46:53,100 --> 01:46:50,719
something on this earth to deal with

2273
01:46:55,929 --> 01:46:53,110
this because after the atomic bomb

2274
01:46:58,719 --> 01:46:55,939
testing we're getting all these

2275
01:47:00,759 --> 01:46:58,729
visitations and what if you know who do

2276
01:47:04,390 --> 01:47:00,769
they speak to who represents this planet

2277
01:47:06,250 --> 01:47:04,400
should we develop a supra united nation

2278
01:47:08,830 --> 01:47:06,260
it's on that document do you think that

2279
01:47:09,399 --> 01:47:08,840
documents real that's an excellent

2280
01:47:12,490 --> 01:47:09,409
question

2281
01:47:13,959 --> 01:47:12,500
the document the six page document that

2282
01:47:17,560 --> 01:47:13,969
is not signed

2283
01:47:20,800 --> 01:47:17,570
however we are have initiated my son and

2284
01:47:24,399 --> 01:47:20,810
I have initiated some linguistic

2285
01:47:26,169 --> 01:47:24,409
authentication forensic linguistics with

2286
01:47:28,630 --> 01:47:26,179
two different people to show that the

2287
01:47:30,939 --> 01:47:28,640
selection of words is totally consistent

2288
01:47:33,280 --> 01:47:30,949
with the words that I'm Stein used in

2289
01:47:34,780 --> 01:47:33,290
that particular era and I believe that

2290
01:47:37,510 --> 01:47:34,790
in the next year we'll be able to have a

2291
01:47:40,450 --> 01:47:37,520
publication on that very subject

2292
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:40,460
in fact we agree to disagree but nee

2293
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:43,130
look I would push the probability of

2294
01:47:48,189 --> 01:47:46,370
reality approaching zero okay and that's

2295
01:47:49,540 --> 01:47:48,199
what I'm talking to the site I mean I've

2296
01:47:52,510 --> 01:47:49,550
got friends who were there and that

2297
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:52,520
you're do not hear anything like that

2298
01:48:00,010 --> 01:47:55,610
going on okay well we'll wait for the 42

2299
01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:00,020
just okay so what I'd like to do now is

2300
01:48:08,140 --> 01:48:05,810
to adjourn this meeting and say welcome